r/PoliticalHumor Jan 30 '23

Arrest of high-level FBI agent on Russia’s payroll raises stunning new questions about how Trump won in 2016

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u/russrobo Jan 30 '23

Mueller never said there was no collusion. His report basically said that there were all sorts of indications of collusion and inexplicable behavior suggesting collusion, but since nobody under investigation would cooperate, evidence was destroyed, and the investigation was actively impeded by people with the power to do so, they could not produce definitive evidence.

What they could prove was the obstruction itself. The behavior- refusing subpoenas, intimidating witnesses, retaliating publicly against “snitches”- were exactly the behavior expected of someone who was guilty, and definitely not appropriate for a public servant.


u/rzenni Jan 30 '23

As I understand Mueller’s standards were that there were two possible outcomes

1 - Not guilty or 2 - This should be investigated by congress.

He went with conclusion 2 and kicked the can to congress.


u/PolyNeoYeo Jan 30 '23

Barr didn’t let him prosecute

Without prosecution on the table, he felt it was unfair to the defendant, Trump, to face allegations of a crime without being able to defend himself from those allegations in court

It’s oddly principled, and Muellers doddering status probably explains the total lack of spine and fight.


u/russrobo Jan 31 '23

Mueller seems to have integrity. His position from the beginning was that he couldn’t find a sitting President “guilty” - because the investigation like this doesn’t have a “discovery” phase where the “accused” can challenge evidence before it’s made public, and the President should not have to divert his attention from his primary responsibility to defend himself.

So, of the three possible findings:

  1. Collusion

  2. Inconclusive

  3. No collusion

#1 was off the table.

So Mueller just set out to uncover evidence and attempt to disprove collusion - because clearing the President of wrongdoing would be a valid and useful outcome of the investigation.

He was unable to do so. All available evidence pointed to collusion, particularly the behavior of those involved and their resistance to turn over evidence or testify.

So the report comes back inconclusive.

Barr took it upon himself to produce a misleading summary of the report that pretended that it was #3 that was off the table from the start, not #1. In Barr’s lie, Mueller had tried to prove collusion but was unable to, therefore the President and his administration were conclusively innocent.

It was the opposite. Mueller had tried to clear Trump but couldn’t. But explaining it- it as many words as I just used- was well beyond the understanding of the MAGA crowd, so he got away with it.


u/MoneyFault Jan 31 '23

Good explanation.


u/russrobo Jan 31 '23

Yes. DOJ’s position was that they can’t accuse a sitting President who’s supposed to be running the country.

Barr flipped the logic, claiming publicly that since the report couldn’t find Trump “guilty”, he must have been completely innocent.

This despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. All sorts of inexplicable connections to Russia, a Russian hack of DNC’s email, several million a month spent by Russia to promote Trump on social media, money connections, spies, payoffs, all of it. We all heard him ask Russia to intervene on his behalf, and they did. Later he tried to withhold aid to the man who would turn out to be Putin’s archenemy.


u/IsuzuTrooper Jan 30 '23

As I understand it, Mueller did not want to fall from a hotel window, thus stopped just short of that line, and protected his family from powerful evil oligarchs.


u/HostileRespite I ☑oted 2024 Jan 31 '23

I'll just take this moment to say I said it from day one of his campaign and was even told that I needed a new hobby back then. While it is true that I need a new hobby, I was also right... but the depth of my correctness has yet to be realized. Buckle up!


u/russrobo Jan 30 '23

“Russia, if you’re listening” should have been the last day of his Presidency. Once upon a time, when there was any sense of honor or integrity, this would have provoked a cabinet meeting within the hour, and Republicans would have given him the boot via the 25th Amendment and then started the impeachment process themselves. Instead, every one of those cowards not only let him get away with it but - by not acting immediately- were forced to go all-in defending him because they were worried about their own careers rather than the country or their oaths.

“It was a joke” should have been just as disqualifying. As the leader of the free world every word that comes out of your mouth matters. And when Russia did listen and did as Trump asked? That was just an illustration of why you don’t joke like that. He not only failed to apologize, but actually made arrangements to use the hacked emails for his own benefit.


u/tarahunterdar Jan 30 '23

It was in the middle of July in 2016. trump wasn't elected. So the 25th wouldnt apply. However, the GOP would have strong armed a secondary candidate in there (ted cruz?) it would still be a loss, but they wouldn't be digging themselves out of a deep hole right now.


u/russrobo Jan 31 '23

You’re correct- I had that out of sequence. The investigation happened later, of course, but “Russia, if you’re listening” was during the campaign. (The fact that the campaign rallies continued post-election as an ego-boosting and money-raising device muddied things a bit.)


u/tarahunterdar Jan 31 '23

I get that, the guy loves his attention, realized the job sucks since he would have to actually work, and then went back to the rallies for attention.


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u/Its_Just_A_Typo Jan 30 '23

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u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 30 '23

FFS look at Trump….does anyone believe he won 2016 fairly? He’s had to be propped up his entire life.


u/un_theist Jan 30 '23

“He is nothing that he claims to be.”

—Mary L. Trump


u/misuz_roper Jan 30 '23

I love the way she calls him "Donald" so dismissively. It can't be replicated. I tried.


u/Sub0ptimalPrime Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

The unfortunate part is that it is impossible to quantify how much Russia influenced the 2016 election with their propaganda campaign, security leaks, and dark money... But any one who was paying attention knows that 1.) The result was anomalous compared to polling, 2.) The result was close, 3.) There is irrefutable proof that the Russians tried to influence it. With just those facts, I think anyone on-the-level would say that there is a good chance the Russians determined the winner and no doubt that they influenced the race. They were aided by some useful idiots of American origin (ahem James Comey and Anthony Fucking Weiner just to name a few), but they started the ball rolling on the Manchimpian Candidate, and I don't think we've fully realized yet all the damage that was done (i.e. "we are waiting for the other shoe to drop", so to speak). We are an empire in decline and the only thing I think that could save us is if competent Americans forego the hamster wheel of greed and enter public service. The problem is that Trump and the GQP have destroyed most Americans' faith in government.


u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 31 '23

I believe Putin got Netanyahu back into power. Israel didn’t enforce sanctions on the Jewish Russian oligarchs doing business in Israel. Then an ousted from power for corruption, Russian-friendly leader, is magically back in power.


u/Sub0ptimalPrime Jan 31 '23

I don't follow Israeli politics as closely, but it wouldn't surprise me. They were also involved with Cambridge Analytica which both resulted in Brexit and Boris Johnson. Weird how nincompoops and Russian apologists got elected nearly all at once, all over the world 🤔!


u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 31 '23

I’m convinced Trump losing was solely because of mail-in voting. I believe the machine voting was rigged for him to win, that’s why he can’t let it go, he KNOWS he was supposed to win. Thank God for the pandemic, it necessitated mail-in voting and that’s why Republicans want it gone…it’s the safest way to vote!


u/Sub0ptimalPrime Jan 31 '23

I don't think the machines were tampered with, or someone would have proven it already. Keeping something like that under wraps would be nearly impossible. I do think that the pandemic and problems at home (and maybe American skepticism after realizing we'd been fucked once already) prevented Russia from being as effective in 2020 with their efforts



Yeah didnt isreal elect someone else? Why the fuck is Netty back?


u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 31 '23

Probably because Putin fucked with their elections.


u/wrthlssthrwwy1913 Jan 31 '23

I'm not gonna lie to you: I could have been convinced he only won from foreign interference in 2016. After everything the American people have shown themselves to be in the days since, I'm increasingly certain he made it in on his own graces and a legitimate expression of will by the American people. Trump is absolutely an indictment of who we actually are as Americans.


u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 31 '23

Speak for yourself, I have much higher standards. Trump and Putin had it all figured out for 2020. Then mail-in voting threw a wrench into it. This is why Trump can’t let his loss go, he KNEW he was going to win because it was rigged, in his favor. Thank God for the pandemic, it necessitated mail-in voting! That’s why the Republicans want it gone, it’s the safest way to vote and they can’t fuck with it.


u/wrthlssthrwwy1913 Jan 31 '23

See, I don't think you're wrong, about any of that I think you are describing reality. But look around: I don't think I'm wrong, either. Look at people, look at politicians! You think Kyle Rittenhouse would be alive and walking free in a country that wasn't a Trump-sucking shithole?! I used to think the morally constipated were a minority, now I realize they've just been running rampant for ages and nothing fucking makes sense because life doesn't fucking matter, here...


u/Sunflower_After_Dark Jan 31 '23

Less than half of the country per the last Presidential election, are in tune with the Republican party’s white rage over having a well-loved, black President for 8 years. They are still so butt-hurt, they’re willing to destroy themselves to keep it from ever happening again. I’m enjoying the show 🍿. Rittenhouse chickened out when it came to first confronting, then shooting a POC, in person, although he talked at lot shit from the safety of his car in that CVS parking lot. Too bad about those two white dudes he killed, they were just consolation hits. C’mon he came along way, he couldn’t leave with killing something! I predict he’ll be dead or in jail before he’s 25. Karma has a funny way of catching up with you when you least expect it.


u/BitchyWitchy68 Jan 30 '23

Because it’s not a political movement. It’s a cult. Cult leaders get away with anything.


u/[deleted] Jan 30 '23

They still claim "Russiagate" isn't real and didn't happen.

Yes it did, and we knew it for a fact before this even came to light.


u/CarlSpencer Jan 30 '23

Manafort already admitted that he shared private Trump campaign plans so that Russia could match with their efforts.


u/kensho28 Jan 30 '23

"NEW" questions???


u/atomicavox Jan 30 '23

Everything and everyone he ever put into any position of authority should have been rescinded and stripped of their title. It’s all so fucked and beyond calculated. Not by his dumbass of course. He just grifts along like a turd in sewage.


u/KonkiDoc Jan 31 '23

The Mueller Report found:
1) The Russian government actively and systematically interfered with the 2016 U.S. Presidential election.

2) That interference was intended to benefit Donald J. Trump over Hilary Clinton.

3) Agents of the Russian government met with representatives of the Trump Campaign (Manafort, Gates, DJTJ) on multiple occasions to offer "assistance and coordination" via social media and information (including polling data) exchange.

4) The Trump Campaign welcomed these efforts.

Now add the fact that a high level FBI agent (Charles McGonigal) investigating one of those Russian agents (Oleg Deripaska) was on the payroll of said Russian agent. Sure seems like a conspiracy to me.

Trump's rube voters just don't want to admit they've been had.


u/ketchup_popscicle Jan 30 '23

lol u guys are like 911 truthers at this point.


u/empirepie499 Jan 30 '23

Just saying it has been a long time since a full two president has had someone of the same party win after them. This means if Donald ran in 2008 he would have lost. But this also means no matter how weak of a candidate he was or the circumstances of the election he would have almost certainly won


u/evident_lee Registered to ☑ote Jan 31 '23

Nobody projects like Donald not even Gaston. As much as he screamed cheating, there is no way that he didn't.


u/smallTexan Jan 31 '23

Cognitive dissonance enters chat 👀