r/WhitePeopleTwitter Oct 07 '22 Silver 1 All-Seeing Upvote 2

yes for Universal healthcare

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41.2k Upvotes

1.2k

u/lsutigerzfan Oct 07 '22

That reminds me of years ago when my mom got cancer. My job said I couldn’t take time off to take care of her. But if it was my wife or my kid it would be ok. But my mom didn’t count to them.

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u/GrundleChunk Oct 07 '22

Unless your job had less than 50 people they broke the law by telling you that you couldn’t take that time. FMLA specifically states that you can.

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u/jtenn22 Oct 07 '22

This is accurate.

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u/VolvoFlexer Oct 07 '22

it's correct, even

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u/ImAFuckinLiar Oct 07 '22

It’s correct, odd.

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u/mp3m4k3r Oct 07 '22

It's oddly correct

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u/kamlee22 Oct 07 '22

It’s deeply reminiscent of a factual statement

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u/VolvoFlexer Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Personally I'd say it's much more factual than, say, things that are less factual.

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u/RenoHadreas Oct 07 '22

I love it when reddit threads do this😍😍

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u/HashtagNAFO Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22 Silver

Filing for FMLA protection will get you fired, with a lot of companies. Not fired in violation of FMLA, but fired for other reasons. There's always a way.

Note: some of the replies to this comment are from fake "experts" on the issue, so tread cautiously.

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u/SEND_ME_CSGO_SKINS Oct 07 '22

If that’s the case you/fired person should be filing complaints with the department of labor for illegal retaliation. Even if you can’t afford to fight the case it is important to document this in the event someone else faces similar problems the dol may open their own investigation using your complaint as a basis. I’m apparently at one company that doesn’t do this. Could be because staff are quitting for better pay elsewhere or retiring but I’ve been looking for signs of retaliation at my company and haven’t seen anyone that’s taken any leave punished for anything. I have seen people that have taken leaves get promotions though. Leave that shit company and shame them.

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u/dr_mannhatten Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

None of this matters if OP lives in a at-will employment state. You can be let go for any reason at any time.

Edit: mistakenly called it Right to Work, but was referring to At Will employment, as some have pointed out.

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u/stealth_mode_76 Oct 07 '22

You mean At Will Employment. Right to work just means you don't have to join the union.

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u/JoeyJoeJoeSenior Oct 07 '22

Right to Work is about weakening unions. You are thinking of At Will Employment.

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u/BrokeAssBrewer Oct 07 '22

Fun fact, that’s 49 states and Montana has no jobs

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u/rocketshipray Oct 07 '22

Since you have incorrect information about how many states have right-to-work laws, here is a link to the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation.

About the NRTW:

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation is a non-profit organization providing free legal aid to thousands of employees nationwide whose human and civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses.

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u/vagabonne Oct 07 '22

What a surprise, huge overlap with red states.

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u/dr_mannhatten Oct 07 '22

Only 27 states are RtW states.

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

Yeah they are mixing it up.

Right to work deals with requirements to join a union.

They are looking for the term at will employment.

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u/fromthewombofrevel Oct 07 '22

Slightly off topic and I apologize, but naming a system specifically designed to use and abuse employees “Right To Work” makes me wonder if the voting populace in those states are easily misled by branding and slogans.

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u/Knuc85 Oct 07 '22

Are you new to American politics? That's usually the case when they make acts/laws to take our rights away.

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u/LurkingOakleaf Oct 07 '22

Not always. MO has shot down right to work 3-4 times and it keeps going on the ballot as our POS politicizing keep trying to force it through.

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u/Wayyd Oct 07 '22

You can't be let go 'for any reason' in a right to work state. You can be let go for 'no reason,' though, and the business isn't obligated to give a reason. It's an important distinction.

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u/DumplingRush Oct 07 '22

Common mistake, but you're thinking of At Will states.

Right To Work is a marketing term for banning mandatory union dues.

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u/onegrumpybitch Oct 07 '22

It still matters. Companies can't break the law, you just have to prove they did.

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u/dr_mannhatten Oct 07 '22

This is something someone who doesn’t live in a Right To Work state would say. A company can literally put “doesn’t fit in to the workplace atmosphere” as a reason to let you go.

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u/ComradeCapitalist Oct 07 '22

First, what you’re describing is At Will Employment, not Right to Work.

Second, yes, they can lie about why they let you go. That’s illegal and what the other guy was addressing by “you just need to prove they did”.

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u/breakmyheart01 Oct 07 '22

You’re a little optimistic here. Regardless of what everyone else is saying. How is an Amazon worker who makes probs 30k a year supposed to hire a lawyer and sue a billion dollar company?

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u/SEND_ME_CSGO_SKINS Oct 07 '22

Typically their internal communications have all the evidence needed. Sometimes it takes a while. See the recent case against blizzard for harassment and discrimination.

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u/subject_deleted Oct 07 '22

"at will employment". Right to work is anti union legislation that basically forces unions to protect workers even if they refuse to pay union dues.

At will employment means there's no contract and either party can terminate the relationship at any time.

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u/VegetableFew8773 Oct 07 '22

Currently dealing with an employee who filed for FMLA one day after being put in a performance improvement program because they were violating multiple work policies. They blatantly said they would use FMLA approved time off to manage their other businesses. It’s ridiculous how people abuse the system.

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u/Tastins Oct 07 '22

And there’s always a way to sue. And I’ve been in HR for years wayyyyy before FMLA. Firing someone for taking FMLA is ridiculous simply because the employer doesn’t even pay for it. You pay the insurance and they pay the salary. So if applying for FMLA is going to get you fired, they wanted to fire you anyway. I’m not “pro-establishment” But FMLA isn’t a protection, it’s insurance just like WC, or DBL. and a legal employment right. What bothers me is your comment could make people avoid claiming that insurance out of fear. Also you can’t really “violate” FMLA as an employee-it has to be approved.

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u/FuckThisPostTruthEra Oct 07 '22

I don’t trust you, you work in HR. Lmao

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u/rocketshipray Oct 07 '22

They don't even know what FMLA actually stands for and what it covers (in another of their comments) so either they're kinda shit at their job or they're lying about it.

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u/LurkingOakleaf Oct 07 '22

What state are you in? FMLA isn’t paid here. You run down your leave pay and then get unpaid- all it does is keep you from getting fired.

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u/HashtagNAFO Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Also you can’t really “violate” FMLA as an employee

That's a misreading. I'm not talking about employees. I'm saying: the company won't fire you in such a way that they're obviously violating the FMLA. They'll fire you for another reason.

It's also worth considering that a lot workers are unlikely to know their rights or even figure out how or why they were targeted for termination. College kids, immigrants, older people, less-educated people, etc. And there's always plausible deniability on the company's part.

So absolutely, many companies will fire you, simply for filing FMLA. You may be seen as unreliable, a liability, or an on-the-job injury risk, or any of a million other possible things. I have seen a co-worker fired for requesting a shift change, so that she could attend check-ups required for participation in a clinical trial: not even FMLA - that's all it took.

Of course, it will depend on who you are and what your health issue is, and of course it completely depends on the company.. and if you're in a dire situation, I'm not saying you or anyone shouldn't file for FMLA, if you really need it. I've done it myself, even knowing I'd be on the chopping block. Nine days back to work after bowel surgery, of course I showed up just in time for our company's first (and last) ever round of "random" drug tests. Thankfully the post-surgery pain meds were out of my system by then*, since my now-ex was a stickler about weaning me off opioids ASAP. I also pretended to be unable to urinate, so that I could go and drink a shit-ton of water and give a more diluted sample, which, since these are HR people and not cops/doctors/prison staff, wasn't considered a sign of deception. Good times.

*Positive for opioids of any type = humongous no-no in the industry I was in at the time.

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u/Angry-Dragon-1331 Oct 07 '22

And suing is only a valid option if you can afford the legal fees.

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u/VegetableFew8773 Oct 07 '22

Absolutely not true.

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u/Particular_Group_295 Oct 07 '22

Dude..been in FMLA at my company going on 3 years now...I keep getting opportunities to grow...filing for FMLA will not get you fired..if that's what your company does, it's time to look for a decent one

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u/Bootygiuliani420 Oct 07 '22

FMLA states you can take FMLA not that you can take time off FMLA is unpaid so it's basically worthless to most people. Getting fired is probably better so you can collect unemployment.

Know your rights, don't expect your employer to tell.you what's possible

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u/little_cotton_socks Oct 07 '22

Is it possible to adopt your mother?

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u/Particular_Group_295 Oct 07 '22

They broke the law there buddy...

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u/flappinginthewind69 Oct 07 '22

paid or unpaid?

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u/CannabisHR Oct 07 '22

I honestly wish we had universal healthcare. It wouldn’t be tied to employment, businesses wouldn’t need workman’s comp, cobra wouldn’t exist, staying in a marriage for benefits wouldn’t exist. I lost my job 5 weeks ago and I had the better benefits. Cobra for us both is $777 for health only. Insane. But the other option is high deductible and we have amazing therapists that we really need. I’m really pushing to maybe make it a thing here in CA someday. Universal healthcare for CA as pilot and hope that others follow. Something has to give.

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u/BiggieWedge Oct 07 '22

I wish you luck and whatever power you have to get it going in CA. Like marijuana and gay marriage, I think it needs to come from the states first. Even though I don't live in CA, I was thinking CA or NY have the best chance of successfully implementing it. (Maybe one of the New England states but they are smaller so won't have the bargaining power with medical supplies companies who are currently jacking up the price).

Once the word spreads about how great it is, more people will move to that state and more states will take it on.

Just have to hope the Q Anon misinformation campaign doesn't quash it.

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u/andyroja Oct 07 '22

I would consider a small state like New Hampshire or Vermont to have a better shot at passing universal health care rather than California or New York.

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u/1-800-Step-Scav Oct 07 '22

BuT iTs SoCiAlIsM!

Can't stand conservatives. I get along for the most part with the 1 conservative at work, but he's always the one to stir the pot with politics, and manages to use the phrase "leave it to the left" in any topic of conversation.

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u/colemon1991 Oct 07 '22

BuT iTs SoCiAlIsM!

Okay, that means those idiots also don't want the following:

  • fire department
  • social security
  • public parks
  • postal service
  • Medicare/Medicaid
  • unemployment insurance
  • Earned Income Tax Credit
  • Public School lunches
  • college grants (including Pell)

And that's a tip of the iceberg. Seriously wish people had to register as "anti-socialist" and lose privileges. And any comments claiming you're against it put you on that list.

Note: before anyone tells me that violates first-amendment rights, I know. But we also can be on a no-fly list for things we say and that's the angle I'm looking at it.

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u/1-800-Step-Scav Oct 07 '22

You are 100% correct. Some GOP lawmakers are attempting to get rid of social security and medicare. There's probably more I just can't think of it off the top of my head. But what's hilarious is that their support base is the group that uses both of those almost exclusively.

"FuCkInG lIbErAlS"

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u/colemon1991 Oct 07 '22

But that's what makes it so stupid.

"Do you like having social security? Have you ever relied on unemployment benefits between jobs? Do you appreciate the tax credit for having children? Are you glad the fire department is there to help you when you fall asleep with a cigarette in your mouth?

Well now, you can get rid of all of that and more by voting Republican. Your self-respect doesn't matter to us, and we want your vote. Because all those things are socialism and we never want you to know! Vote now!"

There, I wrote an entire commercial. Now someone just needs to record it and start playing it as a commercial during Fox News.

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u/CannabisHR Oct 07 '22

Oh how I wish a list existed. Maybe a state will be insane enough (Idaho) to cut all that and we will see how great that works out. *hint it won’t. I grew up 3rd Gen poverty. So we had welfare and many social programs. I was a section 8, Medicaid, public housing, headstart, public school kid. Going to college I had Pell, department of voc rehab for disability cover my last year of college and books. If it wasn’t for social programs I wouldn’t have broken my family’s poverty cycle.

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u/TurkeyBLTSandwich Oct 07 '22

It's wild, there's a TON of socialism in America marked as "American Values" like farming subsidies, the military, oil subsidies, highway grants, bank bailouts, and business bailouts. Oh and tax cuts for the highest making businesses.

But child tax credits? Free student lunches? "Fucking where's the money coming from" or "the budget can't handle that"

Literally spent billions of dollars in Afghanistan per month, but can't spend half a year of that on healthcare....Healthcare.....

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u/1-800-Step-Scav Oct 07 '22

Make it make sense. It's so dumb. I just can't possible fathom why they're so against things that would help them as well.

I can't even talk about insulin price cap with my parents, which is fucking crazy because my brother (their child) is a type 1 diabetic, and has been since he was 13. I say that the republicans voted no just to vote no. Naturally, their response is always the same. "Well the Democrats put something else in the bill that shouldn't be there." And refuse to listen when I tell them I read the whole bill, it's sole focus is insulin price cap. Doesn't matter, Fucker Carlson has it engrained into these people's heads that 100% of the bills that Democrats vote yes to have some ulterior motive. Albeit yes, occasionally Democrats put some stuff that shouldn't really be in there, but at the end of the day it wouldn't affect us anyway.

BTW, in case you didn't know, the actual reasoning behind the voting no to insulin bill was because "lower medication prices means higher copay." The level of audacity these pieces of shit have is beyond me. Literally proves these corporations are charging hundredfold more than they should for shit that costs nothing to make.

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

I have had to change my work and career field to get to full time employment. If we had universal healthcare I would have kept doing my previous job.

I worked and work for

Drum roll

The federal government.

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u/CannabisHR Oct 07 '22

Federal Government was my first job post college. HR assistant was a nightmare truly, and I was in the good area. Between pension, thrift savings, health and more at GS5 in Idaho I took home $10/hour and had to do Uber/DoorDash daily to live check to check. Never saw friends or family. Ended up depressed. It was horrible, and I was glad I got the job that moved me to Los Angeles.

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u/deadplant5 Oct 07 '22

Businesses would still need workman's comp. Workman's comp is to make someone whole after an on the job injury, which isn't just healthcare, especially if the injury is severe.

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u/urbanek2525 Oct 07 '22

People would have too be OK with paying taxes. Americans teach our children two hate paying taxes. So, even if it cost less, Americans would still go super-cheap because it's tax fuhfed.

Healthcare would quickly become a like our school system.

Nurses would be paid $40,000 a year and would have to buy their own gloves.

Teach your kids to appreciate paying taxes.

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u/Smiadpades Oct 07 '22

In South Korea (where I live) health care is by blood relation. So if you (only you) work a full time job, your parents, kids, sister, brother are all covered. Gotta apply for the spouse and show proof of legit marriage.

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u/theoriginalmadhustle Oct 07 '22

This is the way it should be! I never understood why parents and siblings are not included in the definition of an American nuclear family once you become an adult. It's out of touch with reality.

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u/RexianOG Oct 07 '22

This is slightly better than what we have in the US, and makes more sense. I disagree with you that it is the way it should be though. A family’s access to healthcare shouldn’t depend on one of them having employment. That one person loses their job, the entire family is now not covered. Universal healthcare, not tied to employment, is the way it should be. Everyone covered, all the time, no matter who or how old or how rich, or how employed.

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u/Smiadpades Oct 07 '22

Not disagreeing with that but this is much better than the US. I hated being an independent in college and grad school in the states.

I had an accident in college and had to pay 500 USD just so the emergency room at the hospital could tell me to see a specialist. Insurance coverage is total hit or miss even if you have insurance.

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

Here in the good ol' America I spent 5 years working seasonal work.

I would work for 6-8 months of the year and have insurance through work. When I got laid off I couldn't afford Cobra but thankfully I was so poor I could afford Medicaid

My employer?

The federal government...

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u/glemnar Oct 07 '22

They qualify for health insurance if they’re dependents of you. It’s not a family unit thing, it’s a dependents thing. Grandparents and siblings can qualify as adult dependents in a variety of circumstances

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u/throwaway31096 Oct 07 '22

I'm Korean American and I always hated when other Americans cry about how universal healthcare is cOMmUnIsM.

South Korea is one of the most capitalist countries in east Asia with a plethora of it's own social and economic issues. Where the hit song Gangnam Style is a satirical critique of the growing trend of materialism in Seoul culture. Where people go into personal debt, not for education, but to keep up with material trends so they don't experience FOMO or peer pressure. Where TV shows and movies like Squid Game and Parasite directly criticizes the growing wealth disparity and inequality in South Korean society.

When Americans think of communist dystopias, they think of countries like North Korea. South Korea is the complete opposite, for better and for worse, but even they have had universal healthcare since 1989.

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u/WealthTomorrow0810 Oct 07 '22

Lol, it is amazing how people are willing to pay private health insurance companies and make them rich, and claim denied...but not paying little extra tax to have universal healthcare.

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u/BrotherMikeUwU Oct 07 '22

Universal healthcare would actually be cheaper

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u/Hampamatta Oct 07 '22

Ofc it would. Its not a for profit corporation exploiting and fucking over its customers as a business model

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u/BrotherMikeUwU Oct 07 '22

Not only that, universal healthcare means people get care sooner than they do under a pay system as they are less likely to avoid getting help due to cost. Which means more serious and more expensive problems are picked up and treated earlier which lowers the overall cost.

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u/Snaxx9716 Oct 07 '22

This is the same argument I make every time it comes up and I have a real-life example that I always use. When I was 28, I went to the eye doctor to see if I needed glasses. My blood pressure was insane, something like 188/121 or in that range. They refused to allow me to leave and said they were going to call me an ambulance. The doctor then called my primary care doctor who said the same thing, that I needed to go to the hospital because my bp was stroke-level.

I said no. At that point, I was making $45k a year and paying $200 a month for health insurance. That insurance would mandate me to pay a $600 copay just for breathing the air in the ER, plus 20% of the cost of everything they did.

I had my bp re-checked by my primary care later that day and it was still that high and I still refused to go to the ER because I couldn’t afford it. They scheduled me for an appointment for about a week later iirc… now, imagine if I’d had a stroke. I would have potentially been disabled at the age of 28 and not able to continue working. I would have had to live off the system for the rest of my life, all because I couldn’t afford to go to the ER. How does that make any sense?

And before anyone makes any assumptions, I was a whole 105 pounds at the time. I have essential hypertension, meaning there’s no specific cause of it other than probably genetics. It wasn’t my “fault”.

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u/intashu Oct 07 '22

American Healthcare works under two situations.

A: you're rich enough that thousands of dollars doesn't mean a thing to you. Get the best Healthcare and swipe your card as you leave.

B: you're so poor they can't take anything from you. Get life saving medical help when you absolutly need it. But since you couldn't possibly afford it, it will just ruin your credit further in crushing debt you can't pay anyways. You'll not be able to get preventative care. But they're legally required to help you in emergencies anyways.

There basically is no middle ground where the system works. We pay through the nose for shit coverage, we can barely afford a Dr visit let alone a minor emergency, and most policies I've seen will run to their limit if you end up in the hospital for a week. Then you're stuck with option B anyways and that's AFTER your been paying for a policy anyways.

It's fucked. And there are millions of Americans like you who refuse to get treatment for potentially serious issues till they're actively dying because the crushing debt would likely be harder to manage in the long run than the gamble that you survive the situation.

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

The middle ground is having amazing insurance through your work but then you can't leave your work for fear of death or debt.

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u/intashu Oct 07 '22

I didn't count the unicorn coverage because it seems so damned hard to find stable employment at thoes locations when you can even find them!

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

I know what you mean. I work for the government which has the reputation of good health insurance and yet it's not that good

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u/thankful-wax-5500 Oct 07 '22

Again, less profit

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u/BrotherMikeUwU Oct 07 '22

Yes, zero profit is in fact less profit

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u/WallabyUpstairs1496 Oct 07 '22

Yeah but the elite would then get the same health care as the normals and that won't do.

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u/Timah158 Oct 07 '22

Insurance is such a scam. It's like buying a lottery ticket for healthcare. Might as well buy a scratcher to see if the insurance company feels like letting you live today.

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u/moonknlght Oct 07 '22

doctor: yes we can provide this simple, life saving procedure.

insurance man Richard: nah, I don’t think you really need to get that appendix out to live. Take some Flintstones vitamins, you’ll be fine.

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u/Burninator85 Oct 07 '22

Nah insurance is more like... We'll pay 20% of the first 80%, and then 6% of the next 15% up to 42% of the total bill but only for in network providers and excluding 10% of administrative fees. The ER is in network but has an additional charge of $2000 while regular visits are out of network but have no fee. Your max out of pocket are different buckets for in network and out of network. Your nurse and doctor are in different networks as well.

So anyways we're going to send you three different bills for $1200 each that come weeks apart for that one time two months ago that a doctor popped in during your flu shot for six minutes and gave you Tylenol.

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u/Dlaxation Oct 07 '22

When profit is the primary motive health becomes an afterthought. Everytime insurance is holding up a procedure at the doctor's office or a medicine at the pharmacy I'm never asking myself if it's because my insurance and medical team are still determining what's best for me. I know damn well it's someone behind a desk crunching numbers trying to figure out if that's the most profitable route to take.

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u/Timah158 Oct 07 '22

They are literally deciding how many people they are willing to let die to help their bottom line. Absolutely zero moral compass.

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u/intashu Oct 07 '22

When I only had the option for awful coverage which I couldn't afford and wouldn't really help me even if I needed it.. I opted to play the reverse lottery...

That's where you don't have insurance because you can't afford it... And just hope nobody calls your number.

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u/IntroductionCapital4 Oct 07 '22

I would gladly pay the tax for universal healthcare vs paying an inflated premium for just myself. A lot of people can’t wrap their head around the fact that the monthly premium would go away and the tax would be based on income. Having access to healthcare all year round would be a benefit to society as a whole. More people would be able to go in for an annual checkup and catch illnesses before they spiral out of control which forces someone to go to the emergency room because they had no other option.

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u/qomtan3131 Oct 07 '22

not necessarily extra tax, a lot of countries with equal or less taxes have much much better social security nets. The US just likes spending its money on weapons and making billionaires into trillionaires

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u/QueenRotidder Oct 07 '22

I would gladly exchange what I pay in premiums for extra taxes to fund a universal healthcare system in which I don't still have to pay out the ass on top of said premiums when I use this insurance. The mouth breathers don't seem to get this simple concept. And don't even start with the "long wait times." I spent all damn summer in a ton of pain because it was a 6 week wait every time I got sent to a new specialist and I still owe a few thousand after the fact. So, like, if I have to wait anyway, what the fuck??

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u/KistRain Oct 07 '22

Yeah. My grandmother waited 8 hours in the ER with chest pains and a history of heart attacks. My aunt waited 3 months for a bad infection treatment due to needing an appointment and her insurance said this doctor or we won't pay. I know people in the UK and Europe and they think these wait times are insane to then also pay thousands on top of it...

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u/MrLobsterful Oct 07 '22

Welcome to Brasil where we have universal healthcare and still pay for private health insurance plans

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u/Blissontap Oct 07 '22

The health insurance lobbyists worked really hard to associate universal health care with Stalin.

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u/Hazed64 Oct 07 '22

Lol don't even need to pay extra tax government just needs to spend less on their military

"But America's huge we need a big army"

You don't need more than the next like 15 countries combines, who's such a threat to the US that they need all these soldiers and useless equipment

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u/karlnite Oct 07 '22

I think more tax dollars per person is spent on healthcare in the US than in places like Canada.

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u/theback Oct 07 '22

Most are not willing, we just have no choice.

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u/Globalpigeon Oct 07 '22

Not even extra I think there was a study done that showed it would be actually cheaper.

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u/Hot-Cheesecake-7483 Oct 07 '22

The Koch bros in Kansas did do a study hoping to prove private insurance is better. They proved the opposite and then buried the results. It was in the papers in KS but I doubt many people paid attention.

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u/Myl0high Oct 07 '22

It’s not willing for most…

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u/EasywayScissors Oct 07 '22

Lol, it is amazing how people are willing to pay private health insurance companies and make them rich, and claim denied...but not paying little extra tax to have universal healthcare.

It's especially infuriating because they'll end up paying less.

They'll have more money in their pocket (if you make less than $150k).

But these are the people who can't figure out a piece of cloth over their mouth.

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u/rowanblaze Oct 07 '22

People crying about "extra tax" for universal health never seem to calculate the amount they are paying for the bullshit we have now, do don't realize they won't be paying that portion of their compensation to insurance.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/Pedizzal Oct 07 '22

I am in a union for the first time in my life and it's great. I have never felt such job security knowing my boss can't just for me without proving he had a reason. In Arkansas so many people are brainwashed to the thought that unions are bad. They tell us when we can and can't work and take away our freedom and all that nonsense. So many people told me not to join the union.

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u/Buck_Nastyyy Oct 07 '22

Fellow Arkansan here. I am glad you are in a union! I just got my first union job. It is a good feeling.

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u/value_added_bullshit Oct 07 '22

I've been in three unions. My parents were both in unions (and have nice pensions in retirement now). My town is one of the most unionized places in North America, we have unionized bank tellers.

The people who complain the most about unions are.... in the union. They'll never leave it though 😂. It's good though because you're allowed to express your complaints without fear of reprisal.

We also have one of the highest median incomes relative to other places our size.

Wonder why? Hmmm, mystery.

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u/confuzedas Oct 07 '22

Unions are great. They have done so much for workers it's crazy. It is important people realize though that just like the can be good and bad companies, there are good and bad unions. I work in a non union plant as a management type foreman. I was trained and brought up in a culture that teaches you that as a foreman you work for the employees not the other way around. I like my guys, they are great people. My job is to make their job easier and safer. Down the street three is a company in the same industry. They are unionized, the union and the management are toxic. The union will strike every contract costing the company and the employees huge dollars. Often the wage increases they get don't cover the lost wages. The management fucks over the employees with schedule changes and bullshit rules. It's awful. In the end little need to find a good place to work and it can be with an organized work force or a conscientious company who cares. (Which arguably is harder to find these days)

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u/weirdoldhobo1978 Oct 07 '22

Universal healthcare would also be a boon to small and medium sized businesses.

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u/bobone77 Oct 07 '22

It would be CHEAPER than the current system.

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u/thehookah100 Oct 07 '22

It would be significantly cheaper, but every time it gets mentioned someone opposing it will mention “oh, watch out, your taxes would go up by 3 or 4%”.

What they never do is compare the 8-12% that most people pay to profit making private health insurance companies right now.

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u/sash71 Oct 07 '22

People here in the UK are not happy with the cuts that have been made to our NHS but nobody wants the American system (apart from a few Tories no doubt). The amount that Americans pay for health insurance is scandalous to me, especially when you still end up paying a portion of the bill, or find you're not covered for something.

Some Americans say the standard of care would plummet if they had evil, socialist, universal healthcare. I doubt that's true. Cutting out the middleman of health insurance companies who rack up millions in profit would enable more money to go into actual healthcare.

Don't get me started on paying for an ambulance as well.

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u/thehookah100 Oct 07 '22

Over here they also throw out comments about waiting lists and delays. I assume none of them have actually attempted to go to the ER, or to schedule surgery in the US. The wait times here are atrocious.

In contrast my wife and I were in the UK three years ago when she fell and broke her leg. She was in an NHS hospital for 2 1/2 days, and received world class treatment. She was seen by doctors in less then 20 minutes, had the leg x rayed, then the bone realignment, placed in a cast and then another x ray. Then the next day she had surgery to put screws and a plate on the bone, and stay overnight again for observation before leaving the following day.

The bill for all of that was £5,000.

In the US they would have billed close to $100,000. Even with health insurance we would likely have had to pay about $15-20,000 out of pocket.

The American healthcare system is broken.

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u/sash71 Oct 07 '22

I think all healthcare systems have problems. Only the very rich/privileged get access to everything straight away. People with good insurance in the USA have to wait still, especially for mental health treatment.

The fact that healthcare is a business in the States does not help US citizens at all. In fact they end up paying more for everything.

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u/rowanblaze Oct 07 '22

I figured out several years ago I was paying the same portion of my pay and benefits to health insurance to cover three people that a German acquaintance would be covering a dozen or more. Health insurance greed has been ruining outcomes in the U.S. for years.

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u/TriscuitBob Oct 07 '22

And many Americans want more of our shitty system. I don't get it. Like you, I did the math, and realized that I was paying more of my salary into a HSA plan with a $5,000 deductible than my friends in Denmark, the UK, or France were paying in extra taxes. And still at the end of the day I had to pay $$ just to get seen by a doctor.

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u/Fantastic-Pop-9122 Oct 07 '22

I would gladly pay more in taxes for certain things such as healthcare for everyone and free school food. Here, take my money.

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u/evolution9673 Oct 07 '22

This is one of the strongest arguments that doesn’t get talked about enough. It’s a huge competitive advantage to big corporations both in controlling costs and attracting and retaining employees. I’d expect a huge boom in entrepreneurship and small businesses formation if employees no longer needed to get coverage at work. (I know many people who would do so but for their kid has asthma, or spouse has cancer or whatever).

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u/jwhaler17 Oct 07 '22

THIS. I can’t afford to hire employees working for large corps that they HATE to work for us because I can’t touch the insurance coverage they provide. Those employees are stuck in a crappy job because they can’t afford to leave.

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u/NagisaK Oct 07 '22

But but but that's socialist and communism!!!1 *frothing at the mouth....

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u/Trade_Winds_88 Oct 07 '22 Silver

America has universal gun care, and health control.

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u/Blue_water_dreams Oct 07 '22

Every time there is a mass shooting, republicans rush home to hug their guns.

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u/DragonflyGrrl Oct 07 '22

Goddamn, the irony and reality of that made me almost wanna cry. And hug my kid. Frick.

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u/So_ThereItIs Oct 07 '22

Bravo/a — stealing this for good. ;-)

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u/Greeneggz_N_Ham Oct 07 '22

Yes! 😆🤣😂

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u/vonshiza Oct 07 '22

I had a few gist tumors removed in 2020, and I have Barrett's esophagus since the surgery to remove 1/3 of my stomach with the tumors, and my surgeon wants me to do an endoscopy every 2 years for ...... Life. With insurance, these are 3-4k easy every couple years. I'll be in medical debt for life if I follow his suggestion, or I'll be gambling with my health if I don't. What job I take, or leave, will factor in health insurance. It's insanely stupid and awful.

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u/white_butterfly1 Oct 07 '22

God damn, I had a colonoscopy recently and the most expensive part was my partner's hot chocolate while she waited! Even got my parking for free!

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u/intashu Oct 07 '22

It's sadly cheaper to fly to a country with Universal Healthcare every 2 years and pay the premiums for help there.. Than it is to get medical attention in our own country.

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u/CindysInMemphis Oct 07 '22

I was experiencing some health problems and had no insurance when my son joined the Marines. It dawned on me then that he could marry someone with 10 kids and they’d all be covered yet his sick mother was screwed.

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u/Asparagustuss Oct 07 '22

In the military you can actually get justification to claim you parents as a dependent which would entitle him to add you to his TRICARE. There are rules for how and why. He would need to speak with HR for the steps to make it happen. It is possible.

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u/Treacle123 Oct 07 '22

Sadly, with the political shift in the U.S. toward the extreme right, we seem to be moving further away from universal healthcare than before.

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u/Haydukelll Oct 07 '22

It is absurd that our healthcare is tied to employment.

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u/WimpyZombie Oct 07 '22

The health insurance I get from my employer costs me:

$2600 a year deducted from my check plus $1700 deductible before they start covering things

So there is $4300 a year. Granted, the $2600 is taken out pre-tax, and if I elect to use the health spending account (HSA) I can have the $1700 taken out pre-tax as well.

But then even after I've paid that $4300, the plan only covers 80% or 90% of the cost of emergency room visits, some lab procedures, prescriptions and other things, until I've reached my annual maximum out of pocket of $3400. ($1700 deductible + $1700 in copays after the plan kicks in)

Now, I can have that entire $3400 taken out pre-tax and put into the HSA, that's if I don't scrape by from paycheck to paycheck and can afford to not have that money for other essential expenses.

NOW, If I haven't lost you completely yet..... even if I can afford to put that $3400 a year away in the HSA, that gives me:

$2600 deducted from my check right off (pre-tax) $1700 deductible (can be put in the HSA pre-tax) $1700 remains until I reach maximum out of pocket (can also be put in the HSA ore-tax)

This comes to a total of $6000 a year. Split up over 26 pay cycles in the year, I pay $230 out of every pay.

Now....if we had some kind of national medical insurance plan, would the taxes taken out of my check increase by more than $230 each pay? I doubt it.

People who are so set against there being a national insurance plan because they think it Would cause their taxes to skyrocket But really If you think about how much you are already paying out of pocket Even with your medical benefits How much worse can the taxes really be?!!

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u/Muffinlessandangry Oct 07 '22

I guess it comes from a time when women were just considered an extension of their husbands, so anything a woman needed or wanted was provided via him and his employment.

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u/Illegitimate_Shalla Oct 07 '22

This is because conservative politicians are sub human pieces of shit who write laws fucking over their constituents, and their voters are all low IQ tools who hate education and are too stupid to understand that they vote against their own interest.

Conservative christian behaviors are a direct result of high amounts of lead in the air and water.

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u/ScammerC Oct 07 '22

There's no hate like christian love.

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u/nobollocks22 Oct 07 '22

Also, inasurance companies billion dollar profits. They aint giving that up.

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u/drunkvigilante Oct 07 '22

It’s called “cognitive dissonance”. Those same people who scream about “government handouts” probably had health insurance for the first time in their lives when Obama passed the ACA

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u/Illegitimate_Shalla Oct 07 '22

That’s what really gets me; they are too stupid to vote for their own interest. And it’s not a natural stupid either… it’s lead poisoning. My dad, a programmer, very smart… obviously has lead poisoning the way he watches fox news and lets them make him angry about things that would never effect him. It’s sad.

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u/Dlaxation Oct 07 '22

I'll also say that it's also due in large part to the systematic brainwashing taking place throughout this country. You have these aging voters who are constantly bombarded by rhetoric on platforms that they grew up trusting such as television and radio.

Then they finally dip their toes into the online world with social media like Facebook and it's an echo chamber fueled by regurgitated talking points they've heard elsewhere along with maliciously spread disinformation. Meanwhile the social media websites feed on the outrage because it generates interaction and ad revenue.

What I'm trying to say with all of this is that it's a complicated issue with many factors and variables. Addressing the lack of critical thinking in this country and promoting the verification of sources will go a long way in creating more educated voters. That being said we should also be researching human psychology in relation to evolving technology. In a world where information is becoming plentiful and time is becoming limited we need to rethink how we receive and process what we read, hear, and watch.

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u/Illegitimate_Shalla Oct 07 '22

I agree, but I don’t think the brainwashing could take place without the effects of lead poisoning.

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u/nobollocks22 Oct 07 '22

You would have to get rid of insurance companies first, and that aint happening. They have 3 lobbyists for every senator.

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u/lostballinhiweed Oct 07 '22

Can we also agree that dental care should be considered Healthcare, and not pay for as a separate policy? Bad dental problems can lead to heart and other health problems and quality of life issues, but I guess that wouldn't go over well with the lobbyists.

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u/PainterlyGirl Oct 07 '22

And vision care 😩

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u/PresentAd3536 Oct 07 '22

Come to Canada. We have healthcare.

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u/TeazieBreezie Oct 07 '22

American emigration is for rich people

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u/Avarria587 Oct 07 '22

It's not a cheap or easy process. I looked into it years ago and it was not realistic for me.

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u/GoBoGo Oct 07 '22

What do they require? Just curious

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u/wordnerdette Oct 07 '22

Our health care system could not handle an influx of Americans right now.

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u/BrokeAssBrewer Oct 07 '22

Nor your real estate market

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u/PaulMichaelJordan Oct 07 '22

I can’t. I’m a felon unfortunately, cannot get a passport. But you Canadians? Y’all seem to have it together. Would if I could

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

They don't have it all together. The Ontario leader is trying to gut healthcare and remove building codes so his friends can build whatever they want. They have plenty of their own issues.

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u/CombinationGloomy481 Oct 07 '22

From another Canadian here: Universal health care is the norm in most first world countries. America is the outlier in not having it. What is happening in your country is unjust and not normal.

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u/AncientSith Oct 07 '22

Most of us can't afford that.

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u/A_Trash_Homosapien Oct 07 '22

Have you seen America lately? You really want this in there with you

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u/DragonflyGrrl Oct 07 '22

The ones who would actually take the time and effort to get there would be worth it. The ones who would stay in the US would be the 'MURICA crazies who would never want to leave.

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u/QueenRotidder Oct 07 '22

Been trying for years, y'all make it too damn hard. (I don't disagree with that, just jealous I was born on the wrong side of the border.) I freaking LOVE Canada LOL

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

I am a dual citizen and have been job hunting between the US and Canada for a decade.

I have gotten exactly 1 call back from an application I filed in Canada.

I can't go there even as a citizen unless I want to just wing it.

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u/ColdbrewRedeye Oct 07 '22

American here living in the UK.

In the US health insurance for me and my partner equated to 8% of my salary, of which I paid half (for my partner). On top of that there were constant co-pays. A copay for the doctor, one for blood tests, one for xray, another for meds.

In the UK I'm taxed 2%. I pay about $10 for a 3-month prescription. And that's it. No other charges. Ever.

And with the prescription if I were lower income, I wouldn't have to pay for that, either. In fact at the pharmacy they ask if I pay for prescriptions, as if on the honor system.

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u/pm_me_actsofkindness Oct 07 '22

Oh, it makes plenty of sense when viewed through the lens of capitalism. If we could all just take care of each other, there might not be obscene amounts of wealth concentrated among a select few.

What would also make a lot of sense is if we started making people afraid to be that wealthy again. Eat the rich.

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u/Greeneggz_N_Ham Oct 07 '22

I'm down for that ❤

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u/TeaVinylGod Oct 07 '22

I'm a random man and I need insurance... oh wait thought this was Tinder... wrong tab open... sorry

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u/ArcyCatten Oct 07 '22

just marry your sister /s

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u/Seppo_Manse Oct 07 '22

you should become a corporation and watch the state bail you out of any medical debt

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u/lkarma1 Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

For those who are still on the fence of providing universal healthcare in the USA, here’s a real data point. Our monthly healthcare premiums for a young family of four (both adults 42, both children under 10) costs more than our mortgage and is our highest monthly expense. So we basically are paying for two house mortgages each month while only living in one house, or buying an extra car each year (that we don’t use). Our deductible is crap and the US healthcare system is 💯scam.

Because my employer offers healthcare, I have ZERO options to shop for other coverages or join ACA. We’re literally making the insurance sector unforeseen record profits on our backs when that money could be helping my family.

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u/raggusfamilius Oct 07 '22

"Socialist!@%"

-conservatives

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u/Vanilla_Quark Oct 07 '22

Explain please, for whom is US best country in the world??

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u/FortuneLegitimate679 Oct 07 '22

How about how my wife gets insurance for $84 a month through her job but if I’m added it goes to $1400? And the fact that she’s offered “affordable” insurance excludes me from the ACA

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u/Svataben Oct 07 '22

That is insane!

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u/Scrub_LordOfFlorida Oct 07 '22

Americans have became so heavily lobotomized to a accept a system that factually was never design to remotely work over a system that has been proven to work

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u/stealth_mode_76 Oct 07 '22

We don't have a choice. And Congress refuses to try to fix it. Vote? Maaaaaybe if we get a heavily Democratic congress it will change, but too many people go punch themselves in the face in the voting booth amd vote against their own interests.

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u/draleaf Oct 07 '22

I agree 100%

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u/Samael_777 Oct 07 '22

Just move out from third world country

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

My brother and I own a home together. We are both forever single. He helps me with my child. I have good health insurance through work and already pay for a family plan for me and my child (which is over double the cost of an individual plan) and I can not add him. He is self employed and has to pay out the wazoo for sub par insurance. It is disgusting.

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u/Oferial Oct 07 '22

Could you claim him as a dependent and then add him?

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u/liftthattail Oct 07 '22

Quick Google search found

The IRS defines a dependent as a qualifying child (under age 19 or under 24 if a full-time student, or any age if permanently and totally disabled) or a qualifying relative. A qualifying dependent can have income but cannot provide more than half of their own annual support.

So he has to be disabled or unable to provide his own support

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u/den773 Oct 07 '22

Predatory capitalism.

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u/mklinger23 Oct 07 '22

So weird that I get time off for my mom's funeral, but not my grandma's because she's "not close family".

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u/Ok_Organization4314 Oct 07 '22

I have cancer, I have to have overnight hospital stays and a full removal of said cancer then have treatment then final file bankruptcy and I pay 900 in insurance. No flipping joke.

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u/fromthewombofrevel Oct 07 '22

Look around at all the profits in insurance and health care industries here. Now find one person on a board of directors who’d give up even one bonus.

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u/ithsoc Oct 07 '22

All of this is a thing in Cuba. Their recent constitutional change redefines the concept of family away from the sort of capitalistic economic one we have to one more rooted in nurture & relationship.

They've also had free healthcare for decades.

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u/Not_A_Crackpot Oct 07 '22

I want you to imagine that the concept of marriage doesn’t exist.

Now imagine a Congressman approaching the podium. “I have a proposal called marriage. If one enters a marriage they have a different tax schedule, they get numerous legal benefits to include automatic inheritance, sharing of health insurance policies (list goes on) and the state will legally file all the paperwork for around $30”

“Can I do this with my brother?”

“No it cannot be direct family.”

“How about my niece, she has diabetes and I want to look after her?”

“In some states sure, except she’s a minor so no everywhere?”

“Ok how about my roommate, we are both adults!”

“No you’re both men so now.”

“What about time and my 5 best friends?”

“Again no, only one person each?”

“For life?”

“Well no, you can break that contract infinite times and then make a new one infinite times, even with the person you just broke it with, as long as it doesn’t violate the other rules.”

“This seems extremely dumb and like a really niche tax incentive with really strange requirements.”

Final vote 434-1 against his really dumb legal construct.

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u/raudssus Oct 07 '22

This post is again implying that "Universal Healthcare" is something that should be done cause of ethical reasons. Which is exactly what Republicans want you to think, cause then there are tons of Americans who do not support it.

While in real Universal Healthcare is CHEAPER for your country, you all pay LESS while covering MORE people, you get MORE money from taxes of living people, healthcare companies spare up to 25% administrative cost, healthcare workers spare 10-15% of their time that normally got wasted in administrative work and pharma companies drop a whopping 50% of their complete cost.

Republican propaganda worked marvelous, you all believe what Republicans want you to believe.

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u/My_Panache Oct 07 '22

The whole reason I am married to my current husband was because his daughter needed a lot of dental work and I had good insurance at my job.

We'd only been together for less than a year and neither of us wanted to get married again, especially not so soon. However, $80 for marriage (and $400 for divorce should we need it) was a lot cheaper than $7-10k in dental bills.

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u/PaulMichaelJordan Oct 07 '22

Yes, please👍

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u/Mjr_N0ppY Oct 07 '22

Move to a place where you can marry your sister. That should solve the issue 😂🙆

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u/Bigboyrickx Oct 07 '22

The joke here is thinking you can afford healthcare for your family.

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u/Big420BabyJesus Oct 07 '22

yeah, i love my country and the idea behind it but a whole lot of the people have lost their fucking minds, literally

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u/Chavo9-5171 Oct 07 '22

And that’s assuming you’re working and getting health insurance through your employer.

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u/princessofbeasts Oct 07 '22

I have health insurance. I injured my knee, went to the doctor, they said it was fine and told me to take otc painkillers, hinted that I might be hypermobile, and sent me on my way. Some time later I get a bill for $400. I regularly injure random joints (right now it’s my ankle), so I guess I’ll just pray for the best and hope I’m not causing permanent damage while working full-time in a busy kitchen environment with an injury. 🙃

I know $400 might not seem like a lot to most people, but I’m 33 and fighting for my life to pay off debts, save up for a house (at this point it feels like a joke), and afford the general expenses of living all at once.

Universal healthcare would mean so much. It’s sickening to see my parttime coworkers unable to afford basic healthcare, even though they work just as hard as me and are an integral part of the team. It feels so wrong, bordering on evil, to use health insurance as a “benefit” of working fulltime.

Just let all human beings have access to good healthcare!! What the fuck.

I always hope people start holding mass protests buuuut it feels like we’re all too busy just trying to survive. What a coincidence

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u/Umutuku Oct 07 '22

The one time you'd want to move to Alabama. /s

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u/BabyMakR1 Oct 07 '22

But then how will the health insurers make any money? /s

I'm an Australian so I both feel sorry and laugh at American's acceptance of their health system and gun laws.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CoupwalObiWan Oct 07 '22

Simply wed your sister. For more Alabama living tips, follow me.

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u/DickySchmidt33 Oct 07 '22

Not to mention that if you want what is considered "affordable" health insurance, you have to get it through your employer. This makes zero fucking sense.

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u/Raokairo Oct 07 '22

I’d rather pay an additional 15% of my pay in taxes for the rest of my life and have everyone benefit from free healthcare, than have insurance benefit some dick as 25% of my net income is sheathed in someone else’s scabbard.

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u/strain_of_thought Oct 07 '22

Well, you aren't going to make any babies with your sister or your grandmother. "Family Values" means "make more babies", thus anyone who you don't make babies with isn't family. Simple and straightforward.

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u/H_I_McDunnough Oct 07 '22

Everyone wants healthcare. The problem is the people who think others don't "deserve" it. Those people are assholes and we are full to the brim with them.

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u/Thrud_The_Barbarian Oct 07 '22

You can, you just can't expect your employer to subsidize it.

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u/jsc503 Oct 07 '22

We would see an explosion of entrepreneurship in this country if we had universal single-payer tomorrow.

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u/StugDrazil Oct 07 '22

Anyone who has a job that pays into SSI, Unemployment and Medicare tax already in a way pays into a system that could easily be for Universal Care. We are already paying for other people’s Medicare every week we get paid from employers. I don’t have a problem continuing to do so or even at a slightly higher right if it means little Sally from Oklahoma can get the care she needs. It’s called being a decent human being.

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u/openthespread Oct 07 '22

You can also have some random kids and give them healthcare too it’s wild right? You shouldn’t be marrying a random man or woman whichever way you align it should be the person you want to be with for the rest of your life. That should be your family just as your sister or grandmother are their own family units.

Now should we reform healthcare? Absolutely it’s way too expensive we should also reform Medicare and Medicaid there shouldn’t be a fear of medical bankruptcy for anyone. The problem is you aren’t persuading anyone with strawman arguments and false equivalence, they just piss off fiscal conservatives and drive them further to the right.

If we could all just stop seeing it as me vs you and see it as us vs the government the power we would have,

Here come the downvotes

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u/burmerd Oct 07 '22

But, you could adopt your sister as a daughter maybe? That might work and also make sense.

/s