r/facepalm Oct 07 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Giggle 1

Virtue Signalling 🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​

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88.4k Upvotes

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u/StatusOmega Oct 07 '22

I really want to see what sparked this conversation

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u/BoredWeazul Oct 07 '22

person is a VTuber who debut a new outfit for their model which is chinese design

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u/Bramble0804 Oct 07 '22

You got a link? Curious on the vtubers avatar

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u/Pumpkinskydie Oct 07 '22

Probably literally just made a post and they were dmd with no prior communication.

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u/Truthez Oct 07 '22 Silver Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Starry Lawyer Up

You're free to be offended. Being offended doesn't mean you are correct. Being offended on another's behalf... even less so.

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u/OkSalary7068 Oct 07 '22 Helpful

its annoying when some people try and accuse someone of cultural appropriation while they are not the targeted community. obviously if its like reaaally obvious thats fine, but sometimes ppl dont mind and you are just wasting effort and energy

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u/Depressed_Nutt Oct 07 '22

I remember a video (wanna say on yt) of an average Caucasian-looking guy in a poncho and sombrero walking around a college campus asking people if they were offended. All the Hispanics enjoyed it while loads of non-Hispanics said it was ‘offensive’ and ‘making a mockery of their culture’

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u/Hatedpriest Oct 07 '22

Speedy Gonzales was pulled from boomerang in the states because "offensive!"

Speedy Gonzales is one of the most popular cartoons in Mexico.

:shrug:

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u/TheRealLordEnoch Oct 07 '22

And Speedy Gonzales was restored because their offices got swamped in angry calls from Mexican-Americans because they loved it and wanted it returned to the airwaves.

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u/AsianVixen4U Oct 07 '22

Speedy Gonzalez was always my favorite character as a kid too!

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u/fabulousMFingHen Oct 07 '22

Same I'm Hispanic and my parents are straight from Mexico and we all loved speedy Gonzales. He got me into running when I was a little kid, as a joke some of my friends called me speedy. Fast-forward to me being 23 I was racing 5ks internationally, and usually ended up in the top 10 out of hundreds. The little Mexican rat kicked off my running lifestyle.

Oddly enough I was never really fast at Sprinting I just have good endurance and can hope a decent pace for long distance running.

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u/skoltroll Oct 07 '22

Wait, you mean showing a small Mexican hero consistently ridiculing and kicking the ass of his American tormentor might be POPULAR with Mexicans?

dafuq kinda world we live in???

Also...Speedy's almost NEVER on Boomerang. I see Looney Tunes, I switch over. But it's usually Bugs, Road-Runner, or Daffy-based (w a few Foghorns). The "no one's yelled at us yet" episodes. So Boomerang is still acquiescing to woke morons, if only quietly.

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u/TheRealLordEnoch Oct 07 '22

I might not have had Boomerang in mind, actually. I remember hearing about it years agi, without mention of the carrier.

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u/skoltroll Oct 07 '22

Started with Cartoon Network, I think. Maybe even as far back as when it was on ABC. Can't remember, either.

Just one day Whoopi Goldberg shows up on a DVD and I'm explaining to my kids why she's explaining the obvious to them. Seriously, Kindergarteners knew some of them "just weren't right" in some ways.

But...we need Whoopi to assuage the fears of grown ups who, once upon a time, thought it was OK and now feel bad about it.

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u/LordChillsby Oct 07 '22

It's like the outcry against Apu on the Simpsons cause he paints an unrealistic, offensive depiction of East Indians

Bruh... my best bro growing up is Punjabi, and I swear to God his whole family worked at 7-11. And they found Apu hilarious lol

People have lost the ability discern the difference between malice and mockery because they're so concerned about trying to attain the higher moral pedestal for the social brownie points with this virtue signaling bullshit

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u/i-will-eat-you Oct 07 '22

The strangest part is that Apu is the most multi-talented, level-headed and responsible character in the entire show ABOUT A city full of over-the-top stereotypes.

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u/Perioscope Oct 07 '22

People have lost the ability discern the difference between malice and mockery because they're so concerned about trying to attain the higher moral pedestal for the social brownie points with this virtue signaling bullshit

Daaamn! Succinctly put, my dude

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u/PlentyPirate Oct 07 '22

It’s a shame because something like the Simpsons mocks all cultures equally, in a satirical way. Look at the stereotype of Groundskeeper Willie. I get Scottish people aren’t subjected to racism in the sense that Indian people are, but still, it should be possible to make fun of either everyone or no one at all.

I guess the the other side of it is that minority actors weren’t getting the opportunity to voice such characters, which is being rectified.

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u/Mcdiglingdunker Oct 07 '22

My HS Spanish professor HATED Speedy Gonzales, but only because of the Spanglish spoken. He was of course a fan of Speedy's win/loss record. Dario Enriquez sure loved Condorito though.

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u/averagethrowaway21 Oct 07 '22

I grew up in Texas and it never occurred to me that the Spanglish would be a problem because so many people here speak in some approximation of that.

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u/pws3rd Oct 07 '22

I hear it took the Latino community like a decade to get it put back on air

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u/shadowmask7331 Oct 07 '22

Yeah, I haven't met a single person here in Mexico that finds Speedy Gonzales offensive

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u/IronBatman Oct 07 '22 Take My Energy

I don't understand white people. Unless you are dressing up as me as a Halloween costume, I really don't mind. I actually love it. Borrowing from other cultures is good at advance as societies. Is it cultural appropriation when I put on pants/pantaloons? A suit and tie? No. It's stupid.

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u/ObeseBumblebee Oct 07 '22

Yeah... like generally you can tell from the context if someone is borrowing from a culture because they think it's really cool or if they're making a mockery of it. And typically if you're borrowing from a culture because you think it's cool, people in those cultures tend to not mind.

There will always be people offended. I think in the past decade or so we've overvalued how important Twitter's opinion is. They're loud and have a lot of bully power to cause headaches. But they're far from the majority opinion.

It's unfortunate because Twitter could have been a great tool for social change. But twitter users have gotten so petty that now it's just best to ignore them.

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u/S_balmore Oct 07 '22 Bravo!

They're loud

That's really it. Twitter is basically a platform for millennial Karens.

Just imagine going into Abercrombie, seeing a lady throw a fit over the store's return policy, and then assuming that all Abercrombie customers feel the same way. We do that with Twitter. We see a few people throwing a fit over some nonsense and then assume that THE ENTIRE USA and CANADA has the same mindset. Same goes for Reddit unfortunately. Reddit is dominated by extreme progressive/leftwing people, and it's not in any way representative of the whole nation. Most of the people with different opinions simply don't care, and therefore aren't on Twitter/Reddit.

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u/Drgnmstr97 Oct 07 '22

Any virtually anonymous platform has zero chance of being culturally relevant in a positive way.

Now if your name and likeness HAD to be associated with everything you posted on a social platform, THAT might have a chance of developing some relevance. Trolls will populate any platform that they can spew their garbage on because, well.... trolls. And to be perfectly honest plenty of them would still have no problem with being identified because they are just that awful of human beings.

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u/Frys100thCupofCoffee Oct 07 '22

I'm white and I don't understand white people, but I always dress up as The Big Lebowski for Halloween so I can walk around in my bathrobe and slippers and carry around a white Russian to sip on.

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u/BUTTeredWhiteBread Oct 07 '22

I'm always Ursula so i can be the salty sea witch i was born to be

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u/kacihall Oct 07 '22

I have this visceral reaction to the idea of someone dressing up as Ursula because as a 4 year old watching Little Mermaid in the theater I thought she looked EXACTLY like my sort-of grandma (technically my aunt's mother in law but our families were close so she was always Grandma Diane) and was terrified and thought Grandma Diane was going to turn into an octopus sea witch if she got angry. (As an adult, mildly horrified to learn that her design was based on a drag queen who does look AMAZINGLY like Grandma Diane and I think about it every single time I see her picture on Facebook.)

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u/eyefaerie Oct 07 '22

Divine was the drag queen and she was the tits!

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u/kacihall Oct 07 '22

I feel I should point out that I was horrified that my grandma looks like a drag queen more than that Ursula was based on a drag queen. Grandma Diane would not be happy that I've thought she looks like a drag queen... but well, her makeup hasn't changed much since the eighties and well, she DOES look like Ursula (and therefore Divine! )

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u/Bleatmop Oct 07 '22

It's from the same crowd that says words are literal violence and come up with terms like LatinX. As far as I can tell they make this shit up to make themselves feel important because I can't find any reason for it otherwise.

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u/Nihonium113 Oct 07 '22

Remember when they tried to say "black" was offensive and people should use "African-American"?

Legit had somebody in my HS history class say Nelson Mandela was African American because they wanted to be politically correct

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u/Bint_Please Oct 07 '22

Let’s not forget the time they didn’t even consult disabled people before yelling at anyone who didn’t immediately use “differently-abled people”

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u/AspiringChildProdigy Oct 07 '22

I've gotten scolded more than once for using "neurodivergent" when talking about my adhd. Like I'm sorry, but neurodivergent vs neurotypical really sums it up best. I'm sorry that your feelings get hurt by the suggestion that we're atypical, but we are atypical.

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u/Shelf_ham Oct 07 '22

I’m Mexican. I don’t care if anyone wears a sombrero or poncho but that guy was trying to be a dick. If he went about his day ok. Walking up to people and asking if they are offended is edgy dumb boy shit.

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u/Fijian_Souljah DownUnda 🇦🇺 Oct 07 '22

Mans getting brainwashed by PragerU and doesn’t even know it 💀💀

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u/crazyjkass Oct 07 '22

Yo. That video was extremely misleading, all the Hispanics they asked were old guys, of course they don't know anything about it.

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u/antiscamer7 Oct 07 '22

That was made by Praguer U

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u/Scoongili Oct 07 '22

This is like my friend using studies and articles published by The Cato Institute to convince me that regulation is inherently bad.

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u/KINGGS Oct 07 '22

You mean that video from a PragerU segment? I’m not very sure they have the best intentions in regards to producing unbiased content.

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u/Cthulhubot666 Oct 07 '22

You don't think he picked which video clips to upload? I betcha there were college kids who didn't care and I bet there were Hispanic people who did.

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u/Entire-Tonight-8927 Oct 07 '22

Yeah...I get the point he was making but it's also disingenuous to say "Hispanics" enjoyed it and white kids don't because those students are in a very different context.

Most Mexican working class people don't care about white people wearing ponchos bc they live in predominantly Mexican-American communities that don't see a lot of clueless white kids. It doesn't affect them so they assume it's an innocent attempt at participating in their culture.

But being a Mexican-American student surrounded by white kids that don't understand your culture is very different and those kids put up with a lot more abuse in their efforts to fit in with tone-deaf white students.

So yeah, white people often overreact in cringey and clueless ways, but dressing up as "a Mexican for Halloween" is racist and those students in the video have a good reason to feel uncomfortable around a white kid going "I'm dressed Mexican! Is that racist?"

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u/DriverMarkSLC Oct 07 '22

It's usually stupid white people not of the appropriation that get bent.

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u/ArchonBeast Oct 07 '22

When someone says they are offended, it means literally nothing. No different to moaning or whining. Weird how it is now taken to be important.

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u/Akumaka Oct 07 '22

"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that' - as if it gives them certain rights.

It's no more than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase.

'I'm offended by that.'

Well, so f***ing what?"

~Stephen Fry

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u/OG-Bluntman Oct 07 '22

“I am literally angry with rage!”

-Phillip J. Fry

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u/Ur_Tadgers_Wee Oct 07 '22

I am Scottish and would never try and stop someone from wearing a kilt. In fact we celebrate when people from other cultures wear one.

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u/JerseySommer Oct 07 '22

Even utilikilts? Because those look pretty comfy [am girl, mainly want a skirt with pockets]

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u/Bulky-Yam4206 Oct 07 '22 Gold Helpful I'll Drink to That

Just wear whatever. Life’s far too short to be worrying about this shit.

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u/snaggingtexas66 Oct 07 '22

i like that, you're cool

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u/ZenBunn Oct 07 '22

And I like that, you’re also cool

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u/Ur_Tadgers_Wee Oct 07 '22

I 2nd this. Rock whatever

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u/turnipmeatloaf Oct 07 '22

Agreed. Let’s not ban people from wearing things based on their ethnicity

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u/gantabhacht Oct 07 '22

It's not that you shouldn't wear a utilikilt because of appropriation; you shouldn't wear one because they are incredibly ugly. If you want a kilt with pockets I highly recommend https://sportkilt.com/ .

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u/JerseySommer Oct 07 '22

Oooo much appreciated

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u/XXXTurkey Oct 07 '22

Even if they don't go commando?

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u/Ur_Tadgers_Wee Oct 07 '22

Most people don’t 😂 it’s fucking freezing 😂

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u/alan2001 Oct 07 '22

Scottish kilt owner here - this is correct! I don't know a single person who's ever gone commando with a kilt. Apart from being fucking freezing, just imagine all the sexual assault from middle-aged ladies at weddings. LOL.

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u/Ur_Tadgers_Wee Oct 07 '22

This happens way too much 😂 plus wool is itchy af

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u/TackYouCack Oct 07 '22

Did this on St Patrick's Day a decade ago. Yep. Couldn't even count the drunk women trying to kilt check me.

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u/Mystic_Waffles Oct 07 '22

I was a groomsman in my Father's Scottish wedding years ago. It was my first time wearing a kilt and I'd say it was hands down the most comfortable piece of men's apparel I've worn.

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u/elleJeyLay Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

On the other hand, couldn't the case be made that the person (Chinese or not) was celebrating the culture? Surely "cultural appropriation" doesn't mean that other cultures can't learn, appreciate and partake? If we can't do that then what the hell is it all for?

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u/ClownFecker Oct 07 '22

Some people don’t know the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.

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u/__red__5 Oct 07 '22

"I am literally Chinese" ... makes no difference to the self-appointed Cultural Appropriation enforcers

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u/Volkditty Oct 07 '22

"Well, you don't look Chinese so you should still tone it down because you're giving people the wrong impression."

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u/dagbrown Oct 07 '22 Coin Gift Starry Ally

It's always people getting offended on behalf of unrelated third parties. The people getting offended are, like, twice as racist, because they believe the poor benighted people who they're standing up for aren't brave, or smart, enough to do that themselves.

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u/judyvi Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22 Starry

Ok you have just laid out why I hate those people. They’ve always bothered me and I never understood why.

My wife was talking to her friend who was throwing a fit because some people on TV were wearing Indian clothes to their Indian partners family home. She was defending them and explaining to her friend how it was a matter of respect and the family probably appreciated they were making an effort. And like yeah that’s true. But also no one gives a shit and I hearby give anyone permission to wear Indian clothes whenever they feel like it.

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u/kindadeadly Oct 07 '22

That's literally the first gifts I got from my husband, and my in-laws. Clothes of their culture! It makes them all happy to see me wear them properly. It's expected even, when visiting.

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u/skoltroll Oct 07 '22

tbf they look great and seem like they're really comfy

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u/catsgreaterthanpeopl Oct 07 '22

My Peruvian in-laws gave me Peruvian clothes too. Alpaca wool is the best! So soft!

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u/Even_Competition_737 Oct 07 '22

No kidding as a Canadian I give people permission to wear plaid shrit and blue jeans whenever they want.

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u/gravi-tea Oct 07 '22

Next time I see someone in a flannel and blue jeans I will get offended on your behalf.

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u/HavingNotAttained Oct 07 '22

Ever since I moved from the Delaware Water Gap region I’ve noticed that tons of folks—millions, possibly—wear Gap clothing; it’s unspeakably insulting.

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u/DaisyHotCakes Oct 07 '22

DWG represent! Represent what? We don’t know.

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u/zensnapple Oct 07 '22

Reasonable canoeing and a cool national recreation area!

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u/bodybyxbox Oct 07 '22

Also waterfalls, Millbrook Village, and that cool artist workshop and store whose name I forget, but is super amazing!

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/MolassesInevitable53 Oct 07 '22

At Diwali, all the checkout operators at my local supermarket wore saris. All of them, no matter what their ethnicity was. One of their Indian colleagues had brought them in for them to wear. This is in New Zealand. The staff were appreciating the culture.

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u/navikredstar2 Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Seriously, I got into it yesterday because a lady was flipping out that people on the British Baking Show were wearing sarapes and sombreros in an episode on Mexican food and culture. Because she was yelling at a Mexican man, who currently lived in Mexico City, Mexico (and presumably did all his life), because he said he enjoyed seeing people promoting and sharing aspects of his culture. In this case, she was Mexican-American, but it's still incredibly arrogant and wrong to tell someone they're wrong for feeling a way she didn't agree with, about his own fucking culture.

I definitely wasn't speaking for him, because he did a damn great job of explaining his feelings on it, but the hypocrisy of telling someone they're an idiot for disagreeing with you, when their feelings are every bit as valid (and maybe more so), is fucking wrong and shitty and bigoted.

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u/Ok-Reaction-5644 Oct 07 '22

And then the people they are offended “on behalf of” don’t give a fuck at all about what people wear or do with their culture. As long as it’s not done with the intention of hurting people or actually being racist then they’d partake in it too. It’s like when Speedy from the Loony Toons was cancelled for BEING HISPANIC, and the Hispanic people actually liked Speedy a lot and were sad to see him go.

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u/jspangles313 Oct 07 '22

It's never about the issue. Similar to the religious bigots, it's about feeling the sense of superiority over someone else.

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u/kalam216 Oct 07 '22

Damn you just said exactly what it is that’s crazy. Ppl crazy man.

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u/Agreeable49 Oct 07 '22

It's always people getting offended on behalf of unrelated third parties. The people getting offended are, like, twice as racist, because they believe the poor benighted people who they're standing up for aren't brave, or smart, enough to do that themselves.

Now I don't know who you are talking about, BUT I AM LIVID. PLEASE APOLOGISE IMMEDIATELY ON BEHALF OF, I ASSUME SOME ASIANS OR BLACK PEOPLE-eh, I mean, they're all the same, right?

/s

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u/Jovian8 Oct 07 '22

It really opened my eyes when I (a white dude) was discussing cancel culture with some friends who are Mexican. They told me they were actually pissed off that white people got Speedy Gonzalez canceled and taken off the air. They weren't offended by Speedy at all, they actually liked watching him.

It got me thinking about how a lot of cancel culture just comes from (well meaning) white people getting offended on behalf of other people who never really asked for their help, at least not in that way.

If you want to help marginalized people, hire them and pay them the same wages you pay white people. Chill out about cartoon characters.

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u/Fuzzywink Oct 07 '22

Whenever possible, I like to live by the phrase "never be more upset about something than the person whose problem it is." People are kind of awful to each other and there are plenty of instances where standing against the oppression or mistreatment of a group you do not belong to can make sense and be the right thing to do.... but then there are some people who are just looking for something to get offended about on behalf of someone else

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u/Weak_Jeweler3077 Oct 07 '22

So... Reading through these and agreeing with everyone. There's a line here, somewhere, between cultural appreciation, and "black face". I imagine that line varies between people?

Fun topic. Think I'd rather be the guy that puts pins in grenades....

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u/Necessary_Debate_719 Oct 07 '22

I think it all depends on the circumstances and your perceived intentions.

For instance, Robert Downey Jr. did black face for Tropic Thunder. It was a gag in the movie that was funny because of the sheer absurdity and everyone still had a job after.

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u/JerseySommer Oct 07 '22

And prior to that trey Parker and Matt stone openly mocked Hollywood's "tradition" of using Asian actors to portray indigenous/first nations people. Cannibal the musical. Comedy is the easiest way to punch up and say "that ain't right y'all"

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u/Bobbyperu1 Oct 07 '22

The reason the joke worked was because it was making fun of clueless actors and the level of absurdity of the appropriation.

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u/C_Withherbottom Oct 07 '22

Yeah pretty much every other character he interacts with thinks what he's doing is too much and not cool. Pretty clear way for the movie to say 'hey look this is a bad call and we're pointing that out'

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u/VidiVentura Oct 07 '22

This is one of the reasons I'm so pissed the Community blackface episode got pulled from streaming services.

It literally calls it out as problematic, and it also happens to be both one of the best episodes of the whole series, and hands down the best episode to show a new viewer to the show.

So much rage.

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u/PonchoDiego2 Oct 07 '22

And it's not even actual blackface.

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u/kevekev302 Oct 07 '22

So fucking stupid it's not even blackface he painted himself black to be a dark elf. You know they pulled the episode of Aqua Teen where Shake turned black? It's a goddamned cartoon. I don't understand why they can't leave the episodes up with a disclaimer on them taking away the art and the message is just wrong

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u/HavingNotAttained Oct 07 '22

The heart is everything. You know when you’re being mocked, or mocking someone; I’ve worn a hanbok to a wedding and I’m not Korean, but it was (besides being a very cool and comfortable outfit, and looked totally badass) appreciated by my very close friends and their family, who were Koreans in Korea having their wedding, and many folks wore hanbok there (some Koreans wore Western suits and dresses, we were all just out for mutual cultural vengeance).

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u/ClownFecker Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

The problem with black face — besides the obvious — is that it’s done in a mocking, not at all respectful way. Not to mention its racist. Not cultural appropriation, just racism. And the history behind it, too…

There are probably other factors. But I think the main line between them is intention and execution.

Best not to discuss here. Toeing the line could go either way.

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u/beelzybubby Oct 07 '22

it’s done in a mocking, not at all respectful way.

It's the exactly that.

A flippant Halloween costume based off often hurtful stereotypes is different than respecting and honoring a culture and its traditions.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 08 '22

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u/wanna_be_green8 Oct 07 '22

You should see it in the fabric world...vicious. Some small shops are making money from designs which can be troublesome depending on who they got it from. Some don't even realize is an issue until it's pointed out. I was the years into design when I first heard of appropriation, and watch one of my fabric shops lose her business for carrying the wrong fabric. They didn't even give her a chance to correct, guilty by ignorance. I don't see a problem if they sourced the fabric from those cultures, providing income for their designs. But mainly it's people using fabric designs from other cultures in their personal sews. It's appreciating the artistic designs that are original to somewhere else. God forbid someone uses an African tribal design on their shirt because it's beautiful and aren't obviously from there...doxxing deserved according to the policing forces.

I thought we were supposed to be a melting pot. Lately it feels like a vegetable platter.

*disclaimer. I understand there are some designs and symbols that are held sacred and we should try to leave those for their people.

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u/Khaden_Allast Oct 07 '22

Robert Downey Jr did "blackface" in a sense in Tropic Thunder. No rational person who knows literally anything other than that one sentence has any problem with it.

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u/Kelmavar Oct 07 '22

But part of the point of that was the inappropriateness of that.

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u/mimosapudica Oct 07 '22

I've always said that's the key to being a white person doing humor about race. You have to ask who the butt of the joke is. If it's you, you've got the start of a good bit. If it's them, you're a racist.

It's why I love so much of Bill Burr's early comedy about race. He was always the butt of the joke by the end of the bit. Like joking about being annoyed with how black people dress...but bringing the joke around to how he's basically a goober who can't keep up and keeps getting roasted by his black friends.

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u/DeltaBravo831 Oct 07 '22

It worked in Tropic Thunder because there was also a real black dude who called him out on his shit throughout the movie.

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u/oxemoron Oct 07 '22

It would have worked even without someone literally calling him out, that’s how good the movie is! The initial premise, that Hollywood was so racist they cast a white Australian as a black person, carried it through to the end. The out-loud commentary in the movie about it was pretty sparse, all things considered.

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u/Snipekg Oct 07 '22

Tropic thunder is a great movie.

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u/MagicChip39 Oct 07 '22

I think appreciating other cultures is necessary for a more empathetic world. Cultural appropriation is really just practicing cultural elements disrespectfully or with intentional ignorance. Learning customs and celebrating different cultures is enriching. When in doubt, just ask someone from that culture. I'm not sure how it evolved into keeping everyone in little culture boxes they can't leave.

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u/JerseySommer Oct 07 '22

Learning about other cultures by asking them and being shown happily then becomes more "cultural exchange" isn't this fun?

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u/Hidobot Oct 07 '22

Why do people get so turnt about Chinese dresses? I actually think that there’s nothing wrong with someone outside of Han Chinese culture trying hanfu, because it’s something that I think is beautiful and I want more people to appreciate. There’s definitely a level of cultural and historical awareness you should have, but if you talk to people who understand how it works, it’s something that I honestly don’t think is a big deal. Hanfu culture nowadays is less like ceremonial or sacred garb and more like a Renaissance Fair, since those are historical outfits. The implications are slightly different but you don’t see politicians or businesspeople wearing Hanfu, you see costumers.

This kind of reminds me of how people on Twitter cyberbullied a random girl on Twitter because Jeremy Lin got butthurt for no reason and then people who are actually from China posted the same image on social media saying “Westerners think that Chinese culture is beautiful and like to wear Chinese dresses” lmao

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u/swiggaroo Oct 07 '22

The dresses people usually get hung up on aren't even Han in origin but Manchu lol. The Han adapted the fashion to resemble their last dynasty elite which makes all this even more entertaining.

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u/Hidobot Oct 07 '22

Oh yeah, though a lot of Chinese clothes have Manchu origin and even Han Chinese aren’t always cognizant of that. There’s also the famous changshan shirt, those are originally from the Manchus as well.

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u/DrProfDoommuffinsPhD Oct 07 '22

So they're getting mad about cultural appropriation of something that the Han Chinese culturally appropriated from Manchus.

This is deliciously ironic

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u/Critical_Knowledge_5 Oct 07 '22

Han Chinese are originally from one specific region of China. The majority of modern Han culture is appropriated from the various groups they colonized over the centuries.

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u/Auctoritate Oct 07 '22

What's especially odd about it is that Han Chinese people aren't even an ethnic minority. There's a literal billion of them and they make up over 90% of China's population.

People aren't defending a small, fragile culture from exploitation when it comes to things like this. It's the equivalent of someone going onto an internet forum and yelling at people who wear American clothes for cultural insensitivity.

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u/XANphoenix Oct 07 '22

Oh man not the blue jeans!!

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u/Imadope_1960 Oct 07 '22

If it's blue overalls they're a redneck farmer.

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u/King_Tyson Oct 07 '22

Blue jeans, Carhartt jacket, and Timberlands aka American style

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u/Far-Worldliness-3769 Oct 07 '22

See, Carhartt is an actual fashion brand in Italy for some reason. Had a few Italian roommates gushing about the brand and how cool it was, etc etc. Blew my mind that work clothes would be cool to a bunch of Milanese dudes.

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u/Peppertails Oct 07 '22

Exactly, if Chinese people would be so offended by this, they wouldn't sell their clothes to tourists...

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u/SheetyGhost Oct 07 '22

Also there are some events where they prefer everyone wear traditional clothes. In any country. Weddings, business affair, political affairs, so on. Its seen as a sign of respect for the hosts.

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u/OkSalary7068 Oct 07 '22

as a matter of fact, most of us don't mind, just don't do anything offensive and we find it cute and nice

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u/Academic_Snow_7680 Oct 07 '22

I love it when people mix cultural elements, like was done with the cheongsam.

I'm so tired of today's pseudo-woke cultural isolationism, these people are literally promoting a "separate but equal" mentality and enforcing it in an authoritarian way. It's no better than the religious people that tell others how to live their lives.

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u/notRedditingInClass Oct 07 '22

Correct. I'm a super-woke, terminally-online, SJW libcuck etc, all of that, but I think "cultural appropriation" is bullshit. Culture is shared between groups of people all the time, and that's good. If you're doing something racist in a sombrero, that's not "appropriation."

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u/out_ofher_head Oct 07 '22

Yes and that difference is exploitation. Context is key.

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u/citybythebea Oct 07 '22

Exactly! I feel it’s so much more about intent than the actual “object/style/outfit”

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u/El_pantunfla Oct 07 '22

I think this is the case with people from all over the world. I remember when people got offended over speedy Gonzales being a Mexican stereotype and tried to have him cancelled and we Mexicans were like "no, we love speedy, it's offensive that you're offended".

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u/dcooper8662 Oct 07 '22

Speedy always had the upper hand in his cartoons. He was smart, he was fast, and he was funny.

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u/beardiswhereilive Oct 07 '22

Good point and to add, this is a strong lesson in ‘maybe just ask somebody before you get offended on their behalf’

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u/sinnayre Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I honestly believe it’s an American thing. There was the girl from Utah that wore a qipao to her prom. It became this giant controversy and the Chinese ambassador basically said it’s okay. Turns out people in mainland China were like WTF is up with these Americans.

On a personal level, I asked a few friends who are Chinese immigrants. They basically were all for it. Those who had Chinese ancestry and grew up in America, e.g., first/second/third generation immigrants, were the ones who had mixed reactions. Some thought it was great. Others thought it wasn’t.

ETA: Much like the twitter reaction, you’ll find mixed reactions to my comment as well, reinforcing my second paragraph above.

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u/Lowland-lady Oct 07 '22

It is a American thing.

I once asked about these little dolls i had since i was younger a gift from my grandma. Turns out they are called worry dolls. My grandmother gave them to me she told me to tell them my secrets. and for me they worked 20 years later i still have them.

Turns out they are from Guatemala! Everyone in the comments was super positive some said it made them smile to see them again. Some even got them from friends who were from Guatemala. And how it helped them as well.

And of course one person being like : this is cultural appropriation.

I am sure if i told someone from Guatemala that something from their culture comforted me as a child i wouldn't offend anyone.

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u/Onkel_B Oct 07 '22

The stupidity is spreading. Not too long ago a concert in Switzerland was cancelled because the white artis has dreadlocks.

https://switzerlandtimes.ch/local/zurich-bar-cancels-concert-by-musicians-because-of-rastas/

Idris Elba got shit because his character in a TV show isn't shown eating enough carribean food.

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/media/64507/idris-elbas-luther-isnt-black-enough-bbc-diversity-boss

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u/Crankylosaurus Oct 07 '22

I’m 32 to but I kind of want a worry doll now, it sounds sweet haha

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u/Fine-Bar9745 Oct 07 '22

I think it’s because people from the mainland don’t have experience being a racial minority in America lol. They have a way different perception of this country- once I told my cousin who lives in China that a lot of our houses are made of wood and she was like “omg how cute you guys live in little wooden fairy cottages” 💀

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u/realnanoboy Oct 07 '22

The Chinese people I've known would generally be delighted to share their culture. They'd more likely give advice on how to wear it better or something.

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u/Hidobot Oct 07 '22

The qipao thing was what I was referring to, and being part of that Chinese diaspora I'd say your reading was accurate. To me, it's less of an issue of China and the Chinese, and more of an issue with Americans.

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u/sinnayre Oct 07 '22

What threw me off about your comment was that you said it was Jeremy Lin. It wasn’t Jeremy Lin. It was some random dude (who had some questionable tweets himself), named Jeremy Lam.

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u/kimchi_friedrice Oct 07 '22

The lived experiences of mainland Chinese people are different from the experiences of 1st gen or 2nd gen Asian Americans. As an Asian American woman, I was consistently made fun of for just being Asian and looking different. Mom packed you a Korean lunch? “Ew gross, smelly food!” Walking down the hall to class? “Ching Chong Ching, is your uncle Jackie Chan?” These are experiences I had in elementary school. When people grow up enduring bullying or micro aggressions against their Asian identity, it’s hard not to side eye when suddenly it’s en vogue. Mainland Asians will never understand this.

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u/sinnayre Oct 07 '22

I think Jeremy Lin had the best response for something like this. Don’t pay attention to the person who’s comment I originally responded to. It was some random named Jeremy Lam who made the original controversial tweet about the qipao.

Source Jeremy Lin’s Essay on Player’s Tribune

But as an Asian-American, I do know something about cultural appropriation. I know what it feels like when people get my culture wrong. I know how much it bothers me when Hollywood relegates Asian people to token sidekicks, or worse, when it takes Asian stories and tells them without Asian people. I know how it feels when people don’t take the time to understand the people and history behind my culture.

His twitter comment to another playing calling out his dreads as cultural appropriation

I appreciate that I have dreads and you have Chinese tattoos bc I think it’s a sign of respect.

I couldn’t find the actual comment as it’s buried somewhere on Kenyon Martin’s tweets (assuming Martin left the tweet up).

But I think more than anything, your response vs Lin’s response shows the divide in responses from Asian Americans.

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u/BlomkalsGratin Oct 07 '22

Where it becomes a concern is when Americans forget that it's primarily an American thing and start making judgement calls within their vacuum. I feel like that happens a lot online obviously.

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u/iMattist Oct 07 '22

Even if she was from Iceland who cares?

Culture need to mix and spread to evolve.

Imagine going to Beijing and telling people to stop wearing suits, it’s moronic.

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u/Tom_Dynamite Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I feel like that weird cultural appropriation thing over clothes or hair is not even a big deal in vast majority of the world. I feel like it's such a western social media thing where some people just want to be mad. Like should I get mad at all the non Austrians/Germans who dress in traditional folk clothes when going to something like Oktoberfest? Hell, should I get mad at Oktoberfest celebrated in the US? No and I wouldn't even if people told me to. It's a fun tradition and the more people find enjoyment in it the better!

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u/nonotan Oct 07 '22

Never in my life have I been to a country where the people weren't actively appreciative of foreigners taking an interest in their culture, even if it was as shallow as wearing some traditional garments or whatever.

The whole concept of "only X race/ethnicity gets to do this" literally only makes sense in the context of a multicultural nation where the various cultures have their own segregated cliques. It makes some degree of sense in the context of, for example, "Indian reservations" in the US, where they were forcefully relocated and segregated, and despite their supposed "autonomy", their "overlords" still fuck them over at any chance they get, honestly to this day. You can understand why they might be less than ecstatic some white person decides to use their cultural tropes -- in their eyes, here they go stealing their shit again.

Now, just because someone feels bad about something doesn't necessarily mean they get to stop you from doing it... but you can at least understand why they might feel that way.

So, Americans (essentially the only people who care about any of this) might at least be marginally warranted in being the way they are. However, when you go on the internet, which is inherently a global place, it really stops making any sense to conceptualize cultural "ownership" in this way. At best, backlash against "cultural appropriation" is a borderline understandable, but ultimately undesirable, way to "fight back" within the context of a racially divided society that struggles with race-based oppression and racism. At worst, it's just straight up regular racism.

I think any non-racist will agree that in an ideal world, everyone freely enjoying everyone else's culture and ideas can only be a good thing, and is surely overwhelmingly more likely to reduce racism over time than to increase it. There better be a really good reason to forcefully try to prevent that from happening... and usually, there isn't.

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u/No_Victory9193 Oct 07 '22

Austria and Germany are European countries though (Only Asia and Africa have cultures) (joke)

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u/Kittensarecuter Oct 07 '22

😒 I know you’re joking but people seriously believe that… I had an argument with someone on tiktok about how Irish people have culture… you wouldn’t believe the type of responses I’d get back…

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u/DataPakP Oct 07 '22

IIRC I saw this as it originally went down on Twitter. Person in question is a VTuber whose goddess outfit draws heavily if not completely from Chinese culture and myths, and is Chinese. Virtue signaler did not reply further.

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u/nhluhr Oct 07 '22

Person in question is a VTuber whose goddess outfit draws heavily if not completely from Chinese culture and myths, and is Chinese.

Why would it matter, even a little bit, if the VTuber wasn't Chinese? I feel like even using the person's Chinese background to justify the style of the dress in turn gives more strength to the initial argument that it is somehow wrong to make art inspired by *any* culture, whether it's yours or not.

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u/0fficialR3tard Oct 07 '22

Probably is that the point is that it doesn’t matter at all, and this dude is just overstating facts, showing off dumbness of the dumb Twitter user.

I mean, this is Twitter we’re dealing with? I get that some people of the VTuber community stile have hateboners for China, but I’m not sure that’s particularly directly related to this

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u/andnom Oct 07 '22

People that are easily offended should have their internet filtered

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u/R_O_BTheRobot Oct 07 '22

Should be filtered from the internet*

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u/SupportYouth_In_Asia Oct 07 '22 Table Slap

Sounds like you're appropriating Chinese culture my guy.

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u/andnom Oct 07 '22

Regime appropriation maybe..

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u/meloon_man Oct 07 '22

Not filtered. Have their internet privileges revoked

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u/hgbi8h Oct 07 '22

Don’t get offended for others, most people it offends actually doesn’t care and enjoys it

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u/BurntPineGrass Oct 07 '22

I admire and love the culture, hence why I use it as a source of my inspiration. I have no idea why you seek to vilify my admiration for a culture.

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u/ceilingkat Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

“Admiration” is a beautiful interaction with culture.

What people don’t understand is the difference between admiration and appropriation. Here, because we know the garment is traditionally Chinese and no one is claiming it’s not, it would not be appropriation.

Appropriation is adopting a cultural element, without acknowledgment, and profiting from it.

For example: opening a restaurant with traditionally Ethiopian foods, changing the names of the dishes, and advertising it as “Mike’s Original Recipes.” I think most people would take issue with this.

What wouldn’t have been an issue? “Mike’s Ethiopian Fusion Recipes” or just “Ethiopian Food Made By Mike.”

For my prominent cultures like Chinese, it’s really hard to get away with this. But for smaller cultures that have less awareness, that’s where appropriation is concerning.

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u/Zachisawinner Oct 07 '22

Cool, but I want to see that Chinese goddess outfit please.

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u/Vance89 Oct 07 '22

'get cancelled'..... Fuck off

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u/-BARLEY- Oct 07 '22

Just wait untill this person finds out that marvel's thor is baced of of norse mythology, not to mention percy jackson

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u/Zbeubor Oct 07 '22

"but they're white too so it basically doesn't count"

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u/timecamper Oct 07 '22

"They're normal so doesn't count"

"Celebrate our differences" starts playing

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u/dmc-going-digital Oct 07 '22

"Taco taco, chimichanga"

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u/itsDavidwoo Oct 07 '22

I hate when people say things like "it's insulting to all ____" No it's not, people from other cultures love it when you try to embrace their culture even if it's esteriotipical I'm Mexican and if someone came to me whit a poncho I would love that

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u/BlueRaspberrySloth Oct 07 '22

“I advise you make a new design before you get cancelled” Who the fuck do they think they are lmao

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u/petershrimp Oct 07 '22

Cultural appropriation is one of those virtue signals I just can't get behind. Why does it have to be seen as making fun of them? Isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery?

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u/Usagi_Shinobi Oct 07 '22

I find it offensive that you think you get to be the arbiter of what people are allowed to do based on their race, Karen. Why don't you go eat a big steaming bowl of fuck all the way off, and never open that worthless cock socket of yours again.

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u/snake45710 Oct 07 '22

If you are offended on someone else’s behalf you are an idiot.

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u/nevershaves Oct 07 '22

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. - Oscar Wilde.

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u/SoLLanN Oct 07 '22

He can't see she is chinese from her look but I Can see he is American from what he says

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u/Theapexfighter Oct 07 '22

These people are so fucking a annoying lmao. I once went to a party dressed as a Chinese Kung fu master close to the Chinese hood here in São Paulo. Many Chinese people came to take pictures with me and they loved it, from young to old people.

Virtue Signaling can go TO FUCKING HELL!

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u/PowellSkier Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

"I find it so offensive that you're appropriating Anglo-Saxon culture by addressing me in English. It's so insulting to the Anglo-Saxons and their culture."

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u/Derkastan77 Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I published an Asian Recipes cookbook a couple years ago, with a focus on uber healthy weight loss versions of dishes. The book was laid out beautiful, the photos looked great, I was really proud of myself.

I let a friend who works at a media company look at the rough draft to get his feedback. His feedback was:

“You need to change the font that looks like Asian calligraphy (the font used for the title of each recipe). It’s offensive, and can be seen as cultural appropriation because you’re white.”

Me: “… it’s offensive… that i used an Asian font… IN AN ASIAN COOKBOOK????”

Him: “Yes, you aren’t Asian.”

Me: “It’s an Asian FONT.. in an Asian cookbook!!”

Seriously, this overly sensitive crap is insane now.

Funny he didn’t mind that I’m white and cooked Asian food. He was offended at the Font which looked like Chinese calligraphy brush strokes Lol

-edit-

The cb has been selling decently for 3 years now, 500 or so reviews, not 1 single negative review or mention in any review about a calligraphy Font. Lol

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u/Mr_Mkhedruli Oct 07 '22

Nahh that was pretty good criticism. “Cultural appropriation” or whatever buzzword aside, that font has been overdone and just looks tacky. If I saw it in a book, I wouldn’t buy it.

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u/Due-Annual4876 Oct 07 '22

What’s an Asian font? I hope it’s not that stupid fucking chopsticks font

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u/DamnSchwangyu Oct 07 '22

I'm asian born and I definitely don't like the generic asian font style. Not enough to be offended by it outright, but it doesn't feel good for some reason. On the other hand, I have other Asian born friends that are into it. I even remember some Asian kids in grade school practicing writing that style because they thought it was cool. If I saw your cookbook with the Asian style font, I maaaaaybye might roll my eyes on the inside. But I wouldn't be offended. Most likely I wouldn't think more than 5 seconds about it because I have other more important things to be upset about, and currently there are plenty more upsetting things in the world than Asian style fonts.

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u/swiggaroo Oct 07 '22

Insanity lmao. What am I supposed to do as a white person who speaks Chinese, unlearn it ??

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u/azdcgbjm888 Oct 07 '22

You haven't been attacked by the "don't speak another culture's language unless you've been given permission" brigade?

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u/richieadler Oct 07 '22

I have to believe this is a mere excuse to justify not learning other languages.

Isn't it? 🤨

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u/stupidpuzzlepiece Oct 07 '22

In this specific situation I think your friend might have saved you here. There’s a lot of negative history and stereotypes associated with those fonts. Although thematically in this case it might have worked since it’s a “asian” cookbook by a white person.

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u/Th3N0mad47 Oct 07 '22

Wow, wait until that person finds out about all the "cultural appropriation" and "cultural intermingling" in Modern South Africa. They're probably gonna try and cancel the entire country.

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u/StugDrazil Oct 07 '22

I don’t buy into the BS of cultural appropriation. Do you like to wear that beautiful dress from Croatia or the Japanese Kimono? Then wear it. People who get offended on others behalf for reasons are idiots. How do you think fashion was created or started, by people who went to other countries and incorporated what they saw into their own styles or making new styles. Appropriation? If you think so, then literally throw out all your clothes, shoes, etc and make new ones from scratch because sorry to tell you even those socks and jeans came from some other culture. I wear have a kilt, I like it, I wear it around and I’m not Irish or Scottish, but I’m sure someone will scream, yell and then faint yelling about how I’m appropriating someone’s culture. In real life though, I get asked a lot of interesting questions about it and some I can answer, some I cannot but I always meet other people who are interested in getting one themselves. And my friends across both ponds who are Irish don’t care, they laugh about Americans who buy into appropriation because to them it’s foolish and nobody cares.

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u/ACupOfUltraviolet Oct 07 '22

I had a similar experience! My bio had 「」and a mod literally DRAGGED me into a ticket.

They kept explaining how it was cultural appropriation because I used Chinese culture for "aesthetics" and and threatened to ban me. Guess what? The mod wasn't Chinese.

I had to literally provide proof that those punctuation marks were CHINESE language and say several times that I was Chinese to avoid getting screamed at.

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u/ladycarpenter Oct 07 '22

I get not doing black face. I get not making fun of other cultures. I dont get cultural appropriation when it’s someone just wearing/doing something because they like it. If you trace anything far back enough, wouldn’t it be derived from something else any? Doesn’t every culture borrow from others to an extent ?

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u/zion2199 Oct 07 '22

TBH, I don’t understand the outrage that results from “cultural appropriation”. I would think it was be viewed as a compliment when someone borrows aspects of another culture, so long as it’s not being done in a disingenuous or malicious way.

Then again, I’m not offended by most things other people are. Maybe it’s a mindset. Maybe I live in oblivion. IDK.

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