r/interestingasfuck Mar 23 '23

Over a million protesters calling for the removal of Macron.

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7.1k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/Ok-Mark4389 Mar 24 '23

If he takes early retirement they will go ape

192

u/HappyMan1102 Mar 24 '23

If he increases banana imports too

51

u/iMacBurger Mar 24 '23

They will go bananas!

14

u/backtolurk Mar 24 '23

Ouais on va tous partir bananes, grave.

3

u/Fahad_Hassan_95 Mar 24 '23

It will increase the ape imports too

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u/shlam16 Mar 24 '23

He'd be wealthy enough that he will retire miles before any retirement age. It's not like the government forces people to work until they deem fit. You're just not eligible for government money until you reach that age. So in other words if you can support yourself using your own money and don't need the pittance of a pension then you can retire whenever you feel like it.

4

u/Secondprize7 Mar 24 '23

Such an underrated comment.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

Holy shit! That would be too funny. I think they would probably carry him into to the streets and end his retirement though?

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u/IWantToThrowUp3000 Mar 24 '23

Absolutely zero countries have the class solidarity France does.

601

u/boobooshitface Mar 24 '23

Having said that, it shows how utterly out of touch Macron actually is.

349

u/dddxdxcccvvvvvvv Mar 24 '23

It was in his manifesto. He said he would do it if re elected. He was re-elected in 2022.

252

u/marc44150 Mar 24 '23

Yeah but people didn't vote to elect him, they voted to not elect Le pen. He only got 27% of the votes in the first round and that's not counting the very high number of people who didn't come to vote. Also nobody voted for him to bypass every democratic institution we have (the Parliament)

75

u/dddxdxcccvvvvvvv Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

That is true, but french politics for the last 30 years has been final round V Le Pen (and lots of people genuinely like the Le Pens). I remember le pen posters when I was a kid. Tryo sang about Jean Marie pour demain (in 1998, Christ I’m getting old), now it’s Marion on the XIX album . In 5 years it’ll be marechal or whatever the latest one is called

There were lots of candidates - I think about 10 - and people were free to vote for whomever they chose based on manifesto’s. If people can’t be fucked to read them…. 19m voters, 27% at first round is 5m. Far more than are protesting.

Interestingly not reading manifesto’s is also a hallmark of British politics, my other country

Democracy isn’t perfect. But nobody can’t complain this wasn’t coming

P.s if you’re curious mamagubida by tryo is just a wonderful album.

49

u/marc44150 Mar 24 '23

I feel like we can complain this was coming. We basically were given no good choice, either Macron, who is seen as a puppet for the ultra rich, Le Pen which is racist as a racecar and Melenchon which people see as a hardcore communist and a Putin shill

79

u/EsseLeo Mar 24 '23

TBF at least you weren’t the nation electing Trump who is a puppet for the ultra rich, as racist as a racecar, and is a Putin shill.

4

u/greatbobbyb Mar 24 '23

This is right on !

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u/quocphu1905 Mar 24 '23

Lmao racist as a racecar is my new favorite phrase

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u/FallingSwords Mar 24 '23

The thing with Manifestos is that you generally vote for what would best suit you, not what you agree with 100%. On top of that they often use a lot of words, terms or phrases that the ordinary citizens won't really understand fully without doing further reading and we don't all have the time or desire for that.

5

u/FrankTheHead Mar 24 '23

not finding a candidate that you agree with doesn’t mean you have to vote for the least worse choice.

Democratically elected rulers are only as powerful as their ticket, Macron is not a man of the french people.

4

u/dddxdxcccvvvvvvv Mar 24 '23

I queued for 6 hours at the french institute in london to vote for him back in 2016/7. A lot of my friends from back home who lived in london at the time were all pretty enthusiastic about him. Genuinely many people did like a lot of his platform. Wasn’t allowed to vote this time around.

9

u/VeseliM Mar 24 '23

If you don't vote for the least worse choice, you're going to get stuck with the worst choice- 2016, USA

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 25 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PurplePotamus Mar 24 '23

When people around the end of the 18th and beginning of 19th centuries felt their governments were not supporting them, they overthrew them and installed constitutional representative governments to replace essentially aristocratic rule

Are we in a similar place? Representative government feels more like a mask covering oligarchic and corporate rule like a fresh coat of paint on a condemned house. Do we have newer forms of government that can help or is political science these days just focused on operating within the existing power structures?

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u/Ansanm Mar 24 '23

So you can’t have buyers remorse in a democracy?

6

u/dddxdxcccvvvvvvv Mar 24 '23

Sure you can. But something like state retirement age is marginally different to say, bike lanes.

State retirement age is crazy important given how much money the state spends on them. Especially because they are basically giant Ponzi schemes (current taxpayers pay directly liabilities, rather than invested).

Currently nobody under the age of 40 in any European country should expect to get any kind of state pension (we’re collectively broke and with a skewed dependency ratio). The actual age is somewhat immaterial.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

What a good way to get what you want. Have “left candidate” and put him against a legit Vichy hold out. You get what you want either way, or maybe a little more.

3

u/PatienceRelative1147 Mar 24 '23

By that logic, 66.4M French are NOT protesting Macron.

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u/anonAcc1993 Mar 24 '23

I’m legit interested in what other solutions are there for an unfunded pension system. The money isn’t saved for each person’s retirement, it’s simply a transfer of money from people working to people who have retired. That’s what I read.

88

u/Elocai Mar 24 '23

he said he doesn't want that either. But french retirement age is really low and now that people live so long, thats probably not sustainable for the government.

68

u/_TheNumbersAreBad_ Mar 24 '23

Ageing populations are gonna cause some fucking enormous issues in the next couple of decades, I mean it's already starting, but when we live longer than ever and fewer and fewer people are having kids...it's gonna get interesting.

25

u/jaym1849 Mar 24 '23

This is another reason why the housing crisis for millennial’s is such a massive issue. The longer it takes for millennials to save to be able to afford a house, they more likely wait longer to have kids.

8

u/No_Alternative_7908 Mar 24 '23

This is why families should live intergenerationally.

We evolved to live that way, we always had until somewhat more recently.

It’s weird to live in only nuclear families.

1

u/Turtley13 Mar 24 '23

No. It's why we should tax the rich.

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u/freddielizzard Mar 24 '23

Hopefully AI and robotics can take care of the situation.

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u/BLUNTYEYEDFOOL Mar 24 '23

“take care”?

36

u/Locclo Mar 24 '23 I'm Deceased

Sure, it’s a really interesting concept for how AI can help solve overpopulation. You can learn about it in the documentary film, “The Terminator.”

14

u/Abject_Film_4414 Mar 24 '23

Terrible movie where the bad guys won, and humanity remained on this planet…

2

u/insidiousapricot Mar 24 '23

We were all sent back in time to watch the documentary so we could prevent the rise of the machines in the future!! Wake up sheeple!

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u/Riaayo Mar 24 '23

AI is gonna usher us into an age of poverty and wealth inequality that will make the current record wealth inequality look tame by comparison.

Technology will not save us from the people crafting that technology to put us out of work in the first place.

Either we as a species decide that the benefits of that automation be given to everyone, or we will see the benefits of it given to a tiny few who will suddenly own the means of production themselves and no longer need labor (at least not in amounts sustainable for all of us).

There are zero compassionate, sustainable solutions that AI will simply make happen on its own, nor that the ruling class will just hand us. Labor has to organize and flex its muscles now, before its power is severely diminished.

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u/Thucydides_Rex Mar 24 '23

Thank you for mentioning this. I haven't read anything about WHY Macron felt that he had to do this. He didn't make this decision on a whim. How soon will the government be unable to pay for any pensions due to the issues you mentioned?

4

u/marc44150 Mar 24 '23

He kind of did though. He made a decision that the people didn't want and then bypassed every institution in which the people can make themselves heard. If that's a well thought-out plan, then he's a fucking idiot

2

u/LamysHusband2 Mar 24 '23

Should stop letting people live too long instead.

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u/AgedAmbergris Mar 24 '23

He said he was going to do this. He won the election. He did it. So very out of touch.

France's pension system is extremely generous and is also bankrupting the country. They're facing the same retirement death spiral caused by increased longevity and demographic collapse as the rest of the West, but their pension plan is already 14% of GDP so the need for reform is even greater.

What nobody wants to say out loud is that not only in France but throughout the developed world, public retirement systems are a ponzi scheme that cannot be sustained while birth rates are collapsing. Whatever small changes they make to these systems are unlikely to matter, and anyone under the age of 35 who's hoping to actually collect on retirement should probably plan their future with the assumption that it won't be there.

4

u/PaulNewhouse Mar 24 '23

If they don’t pass pension reform France is in real trouble. Their economy is not doing so hot right now.

23

u/djguerito Mar 24 '23

Out of touch with what? Putting his head in the sand?

The last thing in the fucking world the French want to do is work, and someone if FINALLY telling them they're going to have to, so they are reverting to norm.

You're going to see retirement ages going up every fucking where over the next few decades. Have you even peeked at an age demographic pyramid lately? The world is heading for a MASSIVE correction, and anyone who is not a boomer is going to be paying for it.

32

u/Monterenbas Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

Now hear me out, how about rather than raising the retirement age, big corporations like Google, Amazon, Apple who makes profit in France, pay their taxes in France rather than in Ireland or whatever tax heaven?

11

u/BLUNTYEYEDFOOL Mar 24 '23

they dont pay it in Ireland either but yeah

15

u/Monterenbas Mar 24 '23

AFAIK, almost all of international and some national companies who operate in France, are fiscally domiciled in Ireland, with the clear purpose of tax evasion and tax avoidance. I hope that, at least, Ireland get some money out of it, cause we don’t..

2

u/GazelleOdd6160 Mar 24 '23

why not do both?

24

u/AgedAmbergris Mar 24 '23

People don't seem to realize that the post WWII economic and demographic boom is over and these sort of generous public entitlement schemes cannot be maintained long term. Older generations basically wrote themselves a fat check with the assumption that the gravy train would never stop and now the younger generations are stuck footing the bill for entitlements that will likely never benefit them.

People love simple solutions, but there's not an easy way out of this. Governments can just keep printing money so they can keep making these payments, but of course the inflation will erode the future value of these payments so much that they'll be worse far less. They can try to claw more taxes from large businesses, but if they ever manage to do that companies will just pass on those costs to consumers in the form of higher prices, or hire few workers. Either way, the little guy is screwed.

5

u/Monterenbas Mar 24 '23

Now hear me out, this reform is about saving 11 billions euros per year. Just legalizing weed in France would easily bring that amount of money.

So how about we let the people decide wich one they prefer, rather that pass law en force, and ignore the Parliament and beat up the protesters?

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u/Turtley13 Mar 24 '23

Eat the rich my dude. Problem solved.

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u/kingfischer48 Mar 24 '23

Well...no. It shows how the typical French protestor can't do math.

And it shows the rest of the world how dangerous it is to have extraordinarily lavish social hammocks that depend on a growing population to sustain.

It's a country-wide pyramid scheme.

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u/JonA3531 Mar 24 '23

Yes, people still want to retire early and get money from govt, even though the pension fund is getting smaller since the working population is shrinking. But it is Macron that's out of touch.

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u/ilive2lift Mar 24 '23

Maybe try, I dunno, taxing corporations properly?

57

u/UnObtainium17 Mar 24 '23

nah, let these companies enjoy their 25%+ profit margins and have the shareholders reap all the benefits.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

Maybe that's where the pension fund should put its money.

3

u/aligot Mar 24 '23

There's no pension fund. All the money paid by workers (and employers) goes straight to retirees. There's just too many retirees relative to workers.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

Sounds like a ponzi scheme.

3

u/Elocai Mar 24 '23

The only company with such high profit margins is Apple with 25% that I know off

6

u/xocerox Mar 24 '23

Isn't french public expenses already more than 50%.

Maybe corporations could be better taxed, or the tax burden moved from people towards corporations, but truth is a lot of taxes are being paid in France, and still the pension system needs more. Something has to give. I already see people saying "just raise taxes" as if they were low now.

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u/19k-wal82 Mar 24 '23

Capitalism is a prison.

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u/ntack9933 Mar 24 '23

Oh, sweetie…

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u/djguerito Mar 24 '23

So many downvotes, but you're the only one here speaking any sense.

Don't worry, everyone will figure it out eventually.

1

u/Elocai Mar 24 '23

Hey hey, don't bring logic and economy into this topic we are all just very angry that France won't keep their super low retirement age! Who cares if you won't get a pension when you retire - sure poor af but at least no work!

  • Andry Crowd

2

u/Thefdt Mar 24 '23

You’ll get downvoted for saying anything sensible. The French are right to have a practical revolution anytime there’s any type of reform. And macron is the one who is crazy for trying to raise retirement age in a country with one of the lowest retirement ages. Just tax the rich to fund everyone’s retirement or something, that’ll solve everything.

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u/gerbileleventh Mar 24 '23

I doubt that most of the protesters are aware that France, one of top-10 economies of the world, has the 5th worse debt to GDP ratio in the EU.

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u/Generic_E_Jr Mar 24 '23

Genuine question, if the retirement age isn’t raised in step with life expectancy changes, in an aging population, won’t that increase the tax burden on young people?

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u/Saucy_mattsi Mar 24 '23

Absolutely does

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u/PhilWham Mar 24 '23

Theoretically you'd expect civilization, technology, and efficiencies to advance at a similar or faster rate.

Thus, less work required per capita to maintain the similar or better standards of living.

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u/Turtley13 Mar 24 '23

Which would be the case if all wealth wasn't sucked up by the 1%

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u/Generic_E_Jr Mar 24 '23

I would hope so, and I want to give the benefit of the doubt the protestors that they aren’t eating the young when they think they’re eating the rich.

I just want to see the math and the balance sheet to be sure given the stakes here.

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u/Maism45 Mar 24 '23

Yes, but since national dept is imaginary anyway they could just keep going like before.

12

u/NvidiaRTX Mar 24 '23

Debt is imaginary when you own money printers. You can just print new money to pay for your old debt. Just don't say you printed it, 5head.

We can solve the world's pension crisis with that 1 trick. Please ignore that 1 banana cost 10$

3

u/Generic_E_Jr Mar 24 '23

The one weird trick where pensions effectively cut” by losing purchasing power but aren’t *actually cut in nominal value?

2

u/GruumpyCat Mar 24 '23

You either buy the cake or wait to eat it. You have to choose one.

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u/Ok-Association3015 Mar 25 '23

Depends who’s taxed. It shouldn’t necessarily fall on the average citizen if there’s companies who aren’t being enforced to pay their fair share.

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u/Tripping_alien Mar 24 '23

If life expectancy raises by 5%, that doesn't automatically mean the retirement age should raise by 5%. People life longer but in what conditions? We live generally longer but the living conditions are not usually great. The "productivity" people have in their 20/30/40's is not stretched, their productivity of their 80's and 90's is stretched.

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u/MarcheSpirit Mar 24 '23

Yep

French people are lazy and selfish

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u/Generic_E_Jr Mar 24 '23

Are you English or self-loathing?

You seem like at least one of those two.

1

u/MarcheSpirit Mar 24 '23

Spanish, we hate french by default

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u/Ricardeau51 Mar 24 '23

Yes... of course, the famous "lazy" argument... It's more the "tired of being scammed once more time" argument, but go ahead have fun

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u/Ok_Solid_Copy Mar 24 '23

They don't call for the removal of Macron ffs, they protest against the retirement reform

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u/Bluestreaking Mar 24 '23

Except they literally have been chanting stuff like, “Macron Resign?”

That may not have been the core central demand but acting like they’re not calling for Macron’s resignation is just flat out ignoring the fact that many people at the protests/strikes have

11

u/Nexway Mar 24 '23

Except they literally have been chanting stuff like, “Macron Resign?”

Of course we are. Do you expect us to sing in the street "Macron! Withdraw the pension reform but on the other hand stay in office!!" ??

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u/alyaz27 Mar 24 '23

At this point we call for both lol.

Though Macron quiting is not happening unfortunately.

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u/Tontoncarton Mar 24 '23

Nah the reform is just the last straw, it's all about the president and its government

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u/Ok_Solid_Copy Mar 24 '23

Absolutely not. This reform was already a thing before Macron got re-elected. Do some research before making such bullshit statements.

7

u/Bluestreaking Mar 24 '23

What do you mean by this statement?

While it is true that Macron has been trying to push through this reform for awhile and was a part of his campaign platform that doesn’t discount what the other person said that with Macron ignoring French democracy to get his “reform” done has caused the protests to start to shift towards anti-Macron protests

Otherwise why would they still be protesting? The reform already has been forced through, the no-confidence motion failed. If it was just about the retirement reforms then why are the protests continuing?

So like I want to say what I think your point was but like there’s no way I can turn it into a counterpoint of the statement you responded to

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

[deleted]

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u/Bluestreaking Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

Ya the absolute smugness he had the other day when he made the comparisons to Jan 6 and such was bad

2

u/JustUseJam Mar 24 '23

From what I've heard it's been on the cards for a while, because it's genuinely necessary. Macron just had the stones to do it.

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u/Calcifer1 Mar 24 '23

You've heard what you wanted to hear, and this is clearly a complicated situation even us in France can't judge in its entirety.

Macron had the stones to do it.

What's funny is that Macron had the opportunity to, for example, reduce the budget granted to ex ministers and presidents but choose not to. You can't ask people to make efforts when you're not making efforts on your side

5

u/JustUseJam Mar 24 '23

Oh I entirely agree it's a complicated situation, I support workers whole heartedly but also get the issue with not being enough people of working age to support those who are retired. It's a delicate balance which is not easy to not only find but introduce apparently... I entirely agree with your last sentence. Leading by example should be a cornerstone of any political office which is sadly lacking in many a country.

4

u/Bluestreaking Mar 24 '23

There is compromises Macron could’ve made that would’ve required the rich to pay a little bit more. Macron refused to even consider it and decided to ignore French democracy as well using powers that literally exist in the French Constitution because of a right wing putsch in the 50’s. But ranting aside Macron intentionally pissed off the French people to score a political victory and is now paying the consequences of his actions

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u/sealthething Mar 24 '23

I was going to say didn’t an independent government agency say the pension system was going to fine after 2030 or something. Which is why I hear the French are pissed about the reform when it really isn’t needed. ?

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u/Zevyel Mar 24 '23

*because budget cuts are necessary. Them choosing to overwork the people instead of trying other means is the problem.

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u/Glass_Buyer_6887 Mar 24 '23

I mean... The removal of Macron would be a good thing let's be honest

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u/WerewolfUnable8641 Mar 24 '23

When the French want to get rid of a leader, they really don't fuck around.

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u/ahhh-hayell Mar 24 '23

And U.S. mainstream media can’t get enough of this. Wall to wall coverage almost 24/7… jk.. they don’t want us to know we can do this too.

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u/No_I_Deer Mar 24 '23

I too hate Macaroni but you don't see me protesting it.

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u/Darcy_2021 Mar 24 '23

He is French. It’s Macaroon.

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u/Head-Cow4290 Mar 24 '23

marone 🤌🏼

19

u/Upbeat_Cat1182 Mar 24 '23

*Macaron

Macaroons are Italian. 🙂

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u/AllTearGasNoBreaks Mar 24 '23

Its maroon, like the color. Morons.

2

u/metalduded Mar 24 '23

But I hate omicron.

2

u/ReactionClear4923 Mar 24 '23

What a cheesy line

4

u/redsensei777 Mar 24 '23

His true name is Micron. Or something small like that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

u have replied to almost every single person😭

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u/Mandurang76 Mar 24 '23

typically French way of finding a solution for a problem:

Problem -> protest -> problems

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u/dabartisLr Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

France currently has one of the highest national debt levels of any of the world's nations.

It’s an incredible unpopular move but he did what everyone who understood math knew what they had to do.

Or he can say fuck it and be popular and spend away and let some future generations deal with it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

And before someone scream just tax the rich:

“France had a wealth tax from 1982 to 1986 and again from 1988 to 2017. The top rate was between 1.5% and 1.8%, with the total tax rate on fortunes larger than 13 million euros ($14.3 million) hovering at about 1.4%.

The wealth tax might have generated social solidarity, but as a practical matter it was a disappointment. The revenue it raised was rather paltry; only a few billion euros at its peak, or about 1% of France’s total revenue from all taxes. At least 10,000 wealthy people left the country to avoid paying the tax; most moved to neighboring Belgium, which has a large French-speaking population. When these individuals left, France lost not only their wealth tax revenue but their income taxes and other taxes as well. French economist Eric Pichet estimates that this ended up costing the French government almost twice as much revenue as the total yielded by the wealth tax. When President Emmanuel Macron ended the wealth tax in 2017, it was viewed mostly as a symbolic move.

Another French experiment was the so-called supertax, a 75% levy on incomes of more than 1 million euros. Introduced by socialist President François Hollande in 2012, the supertax added to the exodus of wealthy individuals, most notably actor Gerard Depardieu and Bernard Arnault, chairman of LVMH Moet Hennessy Louis Vuitton. Star soccer players threatened to go on strike, and there was fear that France would become a wasteland for entrepreneurs. Meanwhile, the supertax raised much less money than even the wealth tax had -- only 160 million euros in 2014. The unpopular tax was repealed two years after its adoption.

France’s experiments with taxing the wealthy at very high rates didn’t raise much money and didn’t prove politically sustainable. The flight of wealthy individuals from the country probably helped reduce inequality on paper, but it's not clear that their departure left France better off.”

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u/verasev Mar 24 '23

We have all the worst parts of globalism and none of the good parts. The rich can move money, resources, and whole operations anywhere they want but the governments of the world can't work together to keep them from taking their ball and leaving if we try to get them to contribute instead of take.

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u/Danteleet Mar 24 '23

Yeah thanks for this... I'm afraid the above post may be taken as a critiqué to socialism but the way I see it, as long as there will be a way out for greed and no cooperation between countries in the world then this will happen but realistically speaking who needs millions of personal revenue ?

Anyways it's not about to happen given the state of world politics still in 2023..

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u/CantaloupeLazy792 Mar 24 '23

I mean what’s the alternative take away the ability to immigrate above a certain tax bracket like what?

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u/kingfischer48 Mar 24 '23

It's almost like other countries value all of the tangential benefits of having wealth creators within their borders brings them.

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u/verasev Mar 24 '23

I'm sure the politicians they bribe love it but you can't call them wealth creators if that wealth doesn't filter out past the upper class.

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u/ShastaFern99 Mar 24 '23

Yeah people are acting like he did it just to piss everyone off and make them work more. In reality, sometimes hard choices need to be made.

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u/CD7 Mar 24 '23

Bet not too many economists on those streets protesting.

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u/dec35 Mar 24 '23

Bro the richest man in the world, Bernard Arnault, only pays about a millions in taxes when he owns more than 230 Billions dollars. That's pennies

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u/MapleQueefs Mar 24 '23

Just calling out that France trying this isn't the same as USA or Canada.

If you live in any EU country, you can just pickup and move to another country. No questions asked. Hence the exodus to Belgium.

For the extremely wealthy in North America, they would at least need to jump through some tougher hoops to hide their money and income.

14

u/merkaba_462 Mar 24 '23

Elon Musk & Rupert Murdock all became American citizens after they already had citizenship in other countries? They were BILLIONSIRES when they became citizens in the US. You don't see them or their money moving elsewhere, do you?

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u/MapleQueefs Mar 24 '23

They have no reason to move it out of the US right now. The US is the global business hub.... They want to be there to make money.

The question is, if you introduce a hefty tax on the top 1%, will they leave the USA in droves like France? I don't think so.

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u/L3mm3SmangItGurl Mar 24 '23

Lol, ya most likely.

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u/gerbileleventh Mar 24 '23

Thank you!

I did my Erasmus year in France and ironically attended a public economy class (I was able to pick a random one because I had no equivalent for my degree).

I remember being extremely surprised about the numbers and when I considered that my own country (Portugal) went to extreme austerity measures due to the Memorandum of Understanding signed with Troika while not having that much different of a debt to GDP ratio at the time I started wondering if having a strong economy was seriously enough to get France of what looked like a very dire and unsustainable future financial situation. Of course there are more elements to consider but my brain couldn’t look away from this in particular.

This was years ago and today France has the 5th worse debt to GDP ratio in the EU, right after the PIGS.

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u/Shmiggit Mar 24 '23

Thanks for summary, interesting, however missing sources :(

Countries with highest debt levels / GDP than France: Japan, Italy, Singapore, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Canada, just to name a few..

But yeah unfortunately, it's well known that the rich are not patriotic.. Fucking tax evasion - It's a privileged only accessible to the rich. I just wished we had removed them any access into the country after they ditch their compatriotes for their greed. Just as a symbolic 'fuck off', don't expect to enjoy the country's food, culture, public services, and sceneries if you don't want to contribute to its wellbeing.

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u/AgedAmbergris Mar 24 '23

I recently moved to France , and most people I talk to here realize this has to happen. People are basically protesting math at this point.

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u/powderST2013 Mar 24 '23

Our last Governor (Republican) tried to fix the severely underfunded teachers pension and the people just voted him out. The new Democrat just kicked the can down the road.

At least with Social Security they can just keep raising the retirement age to keep the program viable.

2

u/L3mm3SmangItGurl Mar 24 '23

Interesting fact, when social security was first introduced, life expectancy in the US was 60 years. Social security didn’t kick in till 65 (for the full benefit). The age would need to go to 85 today to make it as viable as it was at its inception.

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u/skunkwoks Mar 24 '23

In politics, people (voters) are averse to the truth.

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u/gerbileleventh Mar 24 '23

They are averse into looking into the public finances too.

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u/kingfischer48 Mar 24 '23

Macron, not kicking the can down the road. I wish our corrupt government could do that.

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u/BKlounge93 Mar 24 '23

Curious about those income levels for a wealth tax? 13mm a year is not nothing but is that is pretty low in terms of a wealth tax, is that the best way to do it? Wouldn’t it be better to tax like…assets of the billionaires rather than salaries of millionaires?

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u/No-Scholar4854 Mar 24 '23

The problem with only taxing billionaires is that there aren’t very many of them. 42 in France according to Wikipedia

That’s the problem with designing wealth taxes. You start with an idea of “tax the rich, we need to raise about $6bn a year”, but then find that raising that means applying the tax to a lot of people who don’t think of themselves as “rich”.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

Sounds like they need high taxes on the wealthy + an emigration tax on any wealth > a certain amount.

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u/does_my_name_suck Mar 24 '23

an emigration tax on any wealth

That is not how the EU works.

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u/WillemTwee Mar 24 '23

Forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.

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u/AssignmentSignal5120 Mar 24 '23

They’re complaining about having to retire at 64 when the rest of the world will be lucky to retire at 70 lol

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u/Percevalh- Mar 24 '23

If you didn't like having to retire at 70, do grève.

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u/redsensei777 Mar 24 '23

The rest of the world doesn’t get a minimum of 5 weeks vacation. For some it’s 8 or 10 weeks.

https://snippetsofparis.com/french-work-week/

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u/Neatherheard Mar 24 '23

Calling the 30 countries that have a higher minimum paid vacation time "the rest of the world" is doing some heavy lifting, especially as the countries above tend to not be as populated. Not to mention that the legal french average depending on industry seems to actually be higher than most of these countries too. (According to wikipedia, which isnt a perfect source, but seems relatively up to date.) Not saying that the article is wrong, just that in perspective even with those terms mentioned in it its still VERY favorable compared to most other places.

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u/redsensei777 Mar 24 '23

I’m generalizing, but the fact remains that the French have very generous vacation policies already.

2

u/Neatherheard Mar 24 '23

Oh i misunderstood your comment, i thought you were saying the french only get 5 weeks, while other countries get 8 to 10, my bad :D

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u/fix_your_login Mar 24 '23

Wrong. 64 would be the new minimal age at which you can retire. If you do so, you have less money of course.
To have the full comensation, you must have cumulated 43years of work. So most people retire around 66, 67.
Also, Older people get fired and can't find jobs easily, so it's a misery sentence for them.
Please educate yourself and realize there is a reason 9/10 workers and all unions are against...

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u/AssignmentSignal5120 Mar 24 '23

So at 64 you can collect government compensation? Can you not retire prior to that with your own savings? Plenty of developed countries don’t allow you to have access to government retirement savings plans until 65-70. What you are describing is not unique to France. France still has one of the best labour/vacation balances in the entire world.

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u/Neatherheard Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

So what youre saying is that the law basically changes nothing for the majority of people as they would need to work beyond the minimal age requirement anyways, so this whole law is pointless unless they increase the cumulated workyear requirement (which was already introduced as steadily increasing when it was passed into law in 2014 and is not touched at all in this reform afaik) with it?

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u/LamysHusband2 Mar 24 '23

Just because other peoples let themselves be screwed over even more doesn't mean the French should let themselves be screwed over too.

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u/aligot Mar 24 '23

It's even more stupid. For most people the minimum number of working years means they will have to work until 67 anyways.

They are complaining about a change that practically does nothing except for the few that started working very early on (legally).

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u/PepeSylvia11 Mar 24 '23

You’re complaining about people protesting against something that’s a detriment to their life? Are you out of your mind?

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u/ChampionshipLow8541 Mar 24 '23

“Politicians never offer any real solutions”

Politician implements a sensible solution to a mounting problem

“Get the fuck out of office!”

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u/vinncentboi Mar 24 '23

I think they want him outta office, it's just a theory I have

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u/Thisismybigapple33 Mar 24 '23

For a second I was like why are people mad at macaroons

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u/Joebob2112 Mar 24 '23

All over raising the retirement from 62 to 64. Friggen please.

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u/theshadowbudd Mar 24 '23

They’re being robbed Americans have allowed lady liberty to become an abused wife.

We should’ve been in the streets years ago protesting against paying Wall Street’s bills. big financial institutions have been fucking us

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u/DrRadon Mar 24 '23

What if I forced you to give me two years of your life?

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u/Joebob2112 Mar 24 '23

Tad overly dramatic. Guess they could always just slash the payment...that what you'd prefer?

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u/DrRadon Mar 24 '23

A Tad bit black and white.

It's not a yes and no question.

It's a question on where is the money "we" are spending going and dos it need to be there. France for example spends over 50 billion each year on the military. Not saying the money should not be in that either but you can easily see how that pays for retirees. Countries are wasting billions each year on funding and maintaining the use of Cars, comparable for cheap flights, while every other form of transport is cheaper, better for the environment and often healthier. ect. ect. ect.Meanwhile billionaire wealth has more than doubled even during covid and money is not taken because you can't overtax the poor rich. Instead you need to work longer so they will inherit even more generational wealth.

The money exists. The government just chooses to spend it on something else. Thats why you protest, thats why you strike. To show them that their wealth is worth far less if you are fed up.

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u/Duubzz Mar 24 '23

God I wish all populations took to the streets like the French do. Government puts a foot slightly wrong and suddenly Paris is on fire. In London we politely cough and say ‘excuse me?’ As our government pick apart our public services for their own personal gain.

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u/druule10 Mar 24 '23

The Bastille is calling

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u/vintagesoul_DE Mar 24 '23

Hold the line.

4

u/Mechbeast Mar 24 '23

I’ve never been more jealous of the French and proud of them at the same time. I’m ashamed to be American.

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u/Ketcunt Mar 24 '23

I wonder what they'll be protesting for next month

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u/disturbedsoil Mar 24 '23

Their retirement economic trajectory is going to fail. Cannot the rioters see that?

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u/selkiesidhe Mar 24 '23

I kinda think y'all should give the citizens whatever the hell they want before they start bringing out the guillotines...

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u/jonesyman23 Mar 24 '23

French citizens don’t know how math works.

How do you say “Money doesn’t grow on trees” in French?

1

u/LamysHusband2 Mar 24 '23

That is why you are taxed and pay for pension your entire life until you retire. This is already the case.

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u/Gumichi Mar 24 '23

I really resent this line on tax. If taxes were enough, then the nation wouldn't run a deficit. The last time France even came close to a balanced budget was 1980. The popular line "well, we pay taxes, so-" is a fraud. We've never paid for anything in full.

That said, pension is a different story. If the amount requested was paid in, then the amount promised should be paid out. However, like the man said, the math really doesn't work. So we'll see what breaks.

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u/LamysHusband2 Mar 24 '23

This makes no sense. Why wouldn't getting the amount that you paid in work? Especially with interests or profits from investing that money there should be even more than you paid in.

Also try telling the people that pay hundreds of euros every month solely for pension and then only live a hand full of years in pension or even die before reaching pension that their contribution isn't enough to cover that.

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u/wrongtreeinfo Mar 24 '23

F yeah go mes amis

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u/AccomplishedWar8703 Mar 24 '23

The French really hate working don’t they

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u/redsensei777 Mar 24 '23

Most people anywhere in the world hate working. The rest simply don’t like working. And there’re few who loves their jobs.

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u/Mountainous_Cat Mar 24 '23

No they don't.

In 2019, France was at the 11th place in the OECD in terms of hourly production rate, doing almost the same than Germany. I think it's still the same.

The MINIMUM retirement age is what we are talking about right now. It's at 62 (for now) but if people want to they can work up to 67-69 easily. People are just angry because, once again, it's really hard jobs that are going to suffer from that. Construction workers, cashiers, trash collecters, all those jobs are complicated and most people cannot do these jobs at 59-60-64.

People in the comments are just like "ahahah french people socialist bad"

Yup, and what we are seeing is class solidarity, something most of Western countries have lost. It's called fighting for someone else's rights. And honestly, it's not so bad.

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u/FocusDKBoltBOLT Mar 24 '23

No one is asking for his retirement

Fake news OP is a retard

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u/real_eos Mar 24 '23

Macron démission = step down, Macron

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u/Thatguywritethere45 Mar 24 '23

If I’m not mistaken, this protest is also in response to the fact the change was made with the equivalent of an executive order. The change of retirement age is certainly not welcome due to its implications for college graduates (amongst other segments of the population). Trade unions say the overhaul will penalise low-income people in manual jobs who tend to start their careers early, forcing them to work longer than graduates. However, I’d argue the fact the change was made without any kind of input from lawmakers is equally upsetting.

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u/mrbgdn Mar 24 '23

Is it over some retirement age changes?

2

u/MilkofGuthix Mar 24 '23

Take it from the UK: We've had multiple Prime Ministers being removed / leaving due to lying, breaking the law or being outright psychotic. You won't get real change until you remove the party in power, just a different puppet

2

u/MemnocOTG Mar 24 '23

The French do not fuxk around. We (american here) should learn a thing or two from them.

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u/Ugly-and-poor Mar 24 '23

Why? Force Macron to work until he’s fucking dead.

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u/H__Dresden Mar 24 '23

Something has to give with the major debt. Nothing in life is free. There is a cost for everything. Used to play the game with my kiddos when they were little.

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u/stu8018 Mar 24 '23

Our retirement age is 65 and our GOP gub'ment is trying to take away our retirement money right now. You have it easy France.

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u/lurky9696 Mar 24 '23

It’s 67 and their trying to raise it to 70. Fyi

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u/stu8018 Mar 24 '23

You're correct. I had not checked lately. My IRAs aren't matured until I'm 72. No one in my family has lived past 71. Yay for my kids.

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u/Mountainous_Cat Mar 24 '23

Yup, and you should fight for your rights too

The French are not lazy (since MINIMUM retirement age is at 62 but they go up to 67-69 at work, no problems at all) they just don't want to see really harsh jobs being worked this late for people who cannot do it (cashiers, construction workers etc etc...). It's called class solidarity, and honestly when you don't have it, your rights just get taken, little by little overtime.

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u/Sammy_1141 Mar 24 '23

Another coup won't be so bad, they had them in the past.

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u/nolongerbanned99 Mar 24 '23

What an arrogant ass. Raise the retirement ago when you are an isolated and pampered wealthy politician. These people are scum and whatever they get they deserve. Applies to all politicians in USA too.

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u/Iggmeister Mar 24 '23

say what u like about France, their people do not fuck about when they feel they are getting shafted

in my country (the UK), we've accepted increases to the pension age like pathetic sheep. Not the French. Bravo to everyone that is fighting this in France just now.

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u/MaterialCarrot Mar 24 '23

Your country understands math better than France.

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u/ci_newman Mar 24 '23

Because the way they did it in the UK was by stealth. They only introduced the increased retirement date for the existing younger generation. Those retiring in the next 10 years won't be affected, only those retiring in 20-30 years.

You aren't going to get 18 year olds protesting about a retirement date 40 years away.

Being realistic, I've known for my entire working career (late 30s now) that I won't get any form of social / state pension when I retire. If I want to retire, it will be on my own terms and my own pensions / savings.

[Edit] and the French protests are about the minimum retirement age. The minimum retirement age in the UK is 55 at the moment, raising to 57/58 soon.

State pension will be 68, but minimum retirement age to enjoy the tax benefits of private pensions will be 58

0

u/Uncle_Mau Mar 24 '23

Well after that move, I don’t blame them. That 1 million people represent many other millions of likeminded folk!

1

u/sponivier Mar 24 '23

Imagine if they did this during fashion week

1

u/Quantistic_Man Mar 24 '23

I see making higher pension age was not a good idea

1

u/yeetmann343 Mar 24 '23

What can I say, the french know how to protest.

1

u/JobbyTen Mar 24 '23

United France

1

u/Murray_Booknose Mar 24 '23

Let it begin

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u/Previous_Start_2248 Mar 24 '23

Viva La revolution! Good for them standing up for themselves hopefully the protesters stay safe and France doesn't unleash the hounds on them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23

I wish people in Canada could pull together like this. France seems to have their priorities in order. “They have us fighting a culture war so we don’t fight a class war.”

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u/AlShockley Mar 24 '23

We need this same energy in the US