r/interestingasfuck
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u/[deleted]
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Mar 24 '23
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Congressman Richard Hudson asked if TikTok can access the home network..
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[deleted]
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u/goshtrue Mar 24 '23
This video is made with TikTok….on Reddit.
That about Sums up humans
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u/Crypto-Arab Mar 24 '23
And posted by someone who exclusively posts "triggering" content.
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u/Ihatecumsocks Mar 24 '23 •
I've noticed a trend with these accounts that exclusively post controversial topics. They're always American-based issues, despite the person's English and grammar being rather broken.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it isn't totally out of the question that shit like this gets posted on multiple types of social media to distract American citizens from actual political issues around the world.
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Mar 24 '23
Once it's pointed out to you it's so obvious the amount of disingenuous posting done on the internet for the sole purpose of creating anger and division.
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u/Crypto-Arab Mar 24 '23
And people fall for the trap all the time! I just like to troll the trolls when I see shit like this.
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u/RegisterImpossible44 Mar 24 '23
Or to keep us mad at each other at home over divisive issues. Makes a mighty fine distraction, if you ask me.
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u/Crypto-Arab Mar 24 '23
They are literally foreign trolls with the mission of create division by positing controversial content. They take advantage of our free internet policy. Unlike thier home country where the internet is heavily restricted.
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u/Electronic_Demand_61 Mar 24 '23
It's funny because I was asking that question 2 years ago, and I got called a conspiracy theorist and anti Asian.
Apparently, you can't question why China would want Americans to not pay attention to them stealing their data.
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u/PV247365 Mar 24 '23
You’re witnessing PSYOP in real time. You’re going to see a lot more videos like this for a while.
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u/Cannabisreviewpdx_ Mar 24 '23
And all the while nobody seems to give a real shit about our own government doing this or what was leaked about that by Snowden. Weirdly placed priorities to care about this but not that when one affects us way more presciently.
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u/TyronnicPoppy40 Mar 24 '23
Easy explanation. I like tiktoks, some are good. So I make fellow redditors do the hard work of filtering out the bad ones by posting the good ones here. And sorted to their respective subreddit. And I don't even have to install their app
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u/Chakura Mar 24 '23
Exactly this. I can't stand scrolling through video after video. I'm fine with having the good ones posted here.. as my wife said, tiktok is a whole other social media with some great content makers.
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u/FreshGravity Mar 24 '23
Jesus referred to us as sheep.
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u/Carvedcraftedforged Mar 24 '23 •
He gets us.
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u/GwynnethPoultry Mar 24 '23
All of us.
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u/Alexis2256 Mar 24 '23
Glad I’m not the only one seeing those fucking ads while on the reddit app, it almost sounds sinister if you don’t know the context.
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u/Ms_Emilys_Picture Mar 24 '23
Can you block them? I haven't been able to so far.
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u/shellyangelwebb Mar 24 '23
I’ve had some success blocking them by tagging the ads as misleading. It usually blocks them for a day or two, then I have to block again.
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u/tlong243 Mar 24 '23
It's made to sound super inclusive, but so creepy they are talking about an ancient dead guy "getting me". Really brings out the cult vibes.
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u/chuckrhett
Mar 24 '23
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These are hard questions for IT guys. I had a client say is my network secure. Well, yes and no. If someone wants in and dedicates the resources to get in then there is a good chance. It took me a while to learn to just say yes or no to non-technical people even when I was really trying to just protect myself for when he asks another nerd and that nerd says that ssl was decrypted using playstation 2 and my client comes back to me and tells me, “i thought you said my network was secure, whats all this i hear about ps2 talk?”
So, i agree with tiktok on this one. Yes, if you connect to a network then stuff has access to that network. It is kinda the premise for everything since data networks began.
Another good point was industry norm. Probably if there is stuff on the network that is free for the taking then it will collect as much as it can just like every app by every app company.
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u/a1phaQ101 Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
Another IT guy, the CEO response was solid and vague at the same time. Industry norm can mean accessing other devices on the network. Think of casting YouTube to your TV. It comes down to do you trust the company you’re using. That being said, I refuse to have TikTok on my devices.
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u/Cultural_Dust Mar 24 '23
His answer was fine. The question is horrible. "Can your application access a home network?" "well yes if you tell it to connect to your home network." He might get better answers if he (or his staffers who wrote the questions) knew anything about how technology works.
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u/particle409 Mar 24 '23
It's worded to intentionally sound scary. Tik Tok is accessing your home wifi network! The very same one you use for Zoom calls!
Did you know that everyone who has died in the past three years has also consumed dihydrogen monoxide? They put it in vaccines, they give it to kids at school... Pure madness!
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u/Spurious_33 Mar 24 '23
Doing some research on dihydrogen monoxide atm, looks super scary.
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u/Veighnerg Mar 24 '23
If we try hard enough maybe we can get conservatives to ban this just like books.
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u/slater_just_slater Mar 24 '23
The second question is the more important one. Does TikTok access other devices on a home network. The more precise question is, does TikTok access any devices on the home network that are not essential to the user experience? Such as home automation devices, cameras, etc.
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u/NemVenge Mar 24 '23
I guess thats the point really. The question about the WiFi network was just a build up for his second question (but that is also to vague and leaves to much space to answering while not answering). The congressman (i believe?) just wants a straight line of argumentation. „Can it access the network? So if it can access the network, does it also access devices in that network? And if it do access other devices, does it also access devices which arent needed to function properly?“.
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u/Nesyaj0 Mar 24 '23
I was told throughout my life, repeatedly, that there are no stupid questions.
I guess that was a fucking lie too
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u/hache-moncour Mar 24 '23
Like Mr. Garrison taught us: "There are no stupid questions, just stupid people"
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u/ShauneDon Mar 24 '23
Not an IT guy but it sounds like you guys are saying the right stuff so I agree as well.
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u/jmkahn93 Mar 24 '23
Not an IT guy knows what’s up.
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u/paomplemoose Mar 24 '23
We got this guy Not an IT guy.
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u/Plumpinfovore Mar 24 '23
Dya guys know a guy who's not an IT guy but knows when to agree with what IT guys know? Def be indispensable for my operation.
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u/Zeek_Seeks_Gains Mar 24 '23
I’ve been out of the game for awhile, but used to be a contract IT guy for about 10 years. Can confirm that Not an IT guy’s faith in the other IT guys is solid.
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u/alilbleedingisnormal Mar 24 '23
I refuse to have TikTok on my phone but not because I think they're spying on me. I think they access the same info everybody else does (device identifiers and anything it requests access to in order to function), it just doesn't have any realistic way to protect that data from the Chinese govt.
In order to deliberately spy on people Google and Apple would have to be involved and why?
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u/Anson192 Mar 24 '23
That's what he's saying (not in this particular video) tho. The servers are in the US and monitored by oracle. The moment any data is going to China, oracle can pretty easily pick that up.
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u/Wizardwheel Mar 24 '23
China can literally buy any of our data at any point tho. Data that gets harvested by Instagram and Twitter and other such apps, including Reddit. The only issue with TikTok is that it doesn’t make money for these legislators where as Instagram has lobbied to get rid of their competition.
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u/Cylem234 Mar 24 '23
What are you concerned with TT accessing? Banking info? Passwords? Would you mind elaborating on that? Thanks!
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u/MedicGirl Mar 24 '23
Baby IT/Cybersecurity person…
Any app you have downloaded on any device is given permissions. You know that message that pops up and says, “(insert app here) needs permission to (insert things here)…”? Depending on the permission, you can give access to an app you didn’t really expect to.
Example: Facebook asks if it can have access to your Microphone, Contacts, SMS, Storage, Photos, and so forth. Microphone access can seem pretty neutral; voice messages for Messenger and Live Video…but if you give “allow always” permission…well…you get the point.
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u/BassBoneMan Mar 24 '23
Complaints addressed in the hearing was how much the app could track. Things like, it may collect data on which websites you browse, even when you aren't on TikTok. Or like, how specific is the geolocation with the app. There is apparently evidence that TikTok was teaching the movements of journalists just by then having the app on their phone.
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u/yuxulu Mar 24 '23
Any app with a location service can easily track u as long as they can identify u. For example, a photo app can easily track u because most photo/video have gps meta data attached. Facebook tracks u and sell that data to whoever too. That's how some of their ad works, by tracking ur location.
So pass a comprehensive privacy law. If not ccp can track u just as easily buying data off google or facebook.
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u/demuniac Mar 24 '23
Well what if I ever make a statement negative to the CCP on Reddit and visit their country on a later date. Could this cause problems for me? Would they not let me in?
What if they find out I'm working for a company they need info for, would they want to extort me with some of websites I might have visited?
We know they are not below extortion or censorship, but I also feel not installing TT isn't going to stop them from knowing.
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u/magestooge Mar 24 '23
To an IT person, it comes across as a loaded/gotcha question, but from a place of lack of understanding rather than malicious intent.
If I'm connected to my home wifi, then every device is going through my home network. What does access really mean here? What if I take a video from a shared drive on NAS to upload on Tiktok? That is access. But that's entirely reasonable access (assuming Tiktok allows this). Other than that, any app can scan the network for available devices. That's not really accessing any device. And yet, it would give loads of information to the app makers, especially if you use smart home devices. How many bulbs/tubelights/refrigerator/alexa devices/computers/TVs etc. do you have? Do you want tiktok to know? Of course not. Can it find it without accessing any of your devices? Yes.
But it's accessing the router in doing so. So it is accessing your home network device. However, it's alsp accessing the router for every request it makes. So...
It's just not possible to answer that question accurately.
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u/a1phaQ101 Mar 24 '23
I think there’s an important distinction between OSI layers that’s not being considered. If TikTok is indeed not accessing the local network, then the app (TikTok) wouldn’t know about the router or any other devices locally. The only thing it should know is the final destination (publicly accessible hardcoded ip or FQDN.) Any routing or switching would stay in layers 2/3 and therefore only the phone kernel would only know the gateway info, not TikTok.
A scan would 100% be considered accessing the local network since now not only does the phone kernel know information about other local devices, but so does TikTok as well. Another way to think about it is a scan reaches out to other devices to see if they’re there by sending a packet to each ip and seeing if it replies. If TikTok is the one sending and receiving something from other local devices, I’d argue that’s access.
I think the four questions that need to be asked is 1. What data is being collected about other locally connected devices 2. How is this information used by TikTok 3. How are the users being informed of what is being collected 4. How is TikTok safeguarding it’s users data/local access capabilities
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u/Content_Flamingo_583 Mar 24 '23
There is nothing remotely interesting about this question and answer. I don’t think the maker of any other app could have answered differently.
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u/guri256 Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
Ageeed.
“Does it access devices on the network?”
“Yes. It accesses the DNS server, the router, and arguably the Wi-Fi access point. It also accesses the phone it’s running on, which is (by definition) a device on the network.”
And, the guy whose answering the questions is probably either not an engineer, so can’t give a complete answer, or is an engineer, so is unwilling to give an answer which is possibly incomplete.
Maybe the answer should have been, “Yes, but not in the way you’re trying to imply. At best you’re too ignorant to ask the question you mean to ask. At worst, you’re trying to ask a leading question to trick your voters.”
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u/Omegeddon Mar 24 '23
It's unfortunate he has to be intentionally vague to be more accurate because the Congressman is stupid. Yes it accesses the network. But if he says that they run away with the spying narrative
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u/HalcyonEnder Mar 24 '23
I’ve been getting a lot “___ app would like to discover devices on your network” lately. Not even socials I wanna something like “Hopper” did (can’t remember the exact apps but know it def made me take a second look and go “da f?”)
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u/st_rdt Mar 24 '23
Well, it is a legit question if you consider the follow up of "Can TikTok access other devices on the same wi-fi network"
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u/Ant_and_Cleo Mar 24 '23
Totally legit question given the context.
The answer ‘nothing outside of industry norms” is a great example of a non-denial denial as well. He pivots to “no”, but knows there’s likely more to it and has to hedge the No with the “I’ll get back to you.”
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u/selfdestructingin5 Mar 24 '23
No, it’s not like that. A lot of apps can access other devices on your network, like how Spotify can stream to smart devices in your house etc. it is a technically nuanced answer to give to a question like that
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u/JJ_2007 Mar 24 '23
The difference with that is, that you actively choose and give access to stream Spotify to what device you’d like to; their concern is that users don’t want TikTok to have access to information and things such as other devices that aren’t necessarily something pertinent to the operation of the app.
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u/jaggeddragon Mar 24 '23
The problem is that the question SEEMS simple, but is actually fairly complex.
I have a wi-fi router in my home. This router is configured to point DNS queries to another device in my network. TikTok, or ANY app on my phone, or ANY device on my network, must access this local DNS server if TikTok, the app, or device wants to resolve a domain name to an ip address in order to communicate on the internet.
Does this meet the qualifications of 'accessing another device on the wifi network'? Not really, as the DNS server is on a wired-network which is accessible to the wifi network. However, since they are both on the same subnet, they could be considered to be on the same network. Furthermore, does this even meet the threshold of 'accessing', as the 'access' is limited to using the offered and configured service in a normal internet connection?
It seems that the questions is intended to produce a 'gotcha' moment, as the technical answer includes a yes which has to be couched in very technical stuff that usually occurs behind the scenes and seamlessly to end-users.
This is an INDIVIDUAL service running in my simple home network. More complex networks might have many more.
TLDR: it's complicated
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u/flo-at Mar 24 '23
you actively choose and give access to stream Spotify to what device you’d like to
Yes and no. For Spotify to be able to see the device and give you that option, it needs to discover all compatible devices (i.e. make a connection) in the first place. Also on Android for example there is only one permission for network access. It does not separate between the local network and the internet because it's just not that simple.
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u/rat4204 Mar 24 '23
Agreed. And so for example if TikTok is able to cast to a Chromecast for example, then it has to be able to scan for compatible devices and then interact with those devices. So yes it can interact with other devices on the network. That's just how networked devices work. That's the "industry norm".
What it congressman needs to be concerned about is whether the app is also able to do penetration testing and malicious network attacks while also doing its normal function. I doubt it can, and I HIGHLY doubt the congressman knows what he's talking about to be able to determine the difference.
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u/PriorSecurity9784 Mar 24 '23
What he is asking is “so if my kid has TikTok on their phone, and they are using wifi at my house, and I’m watching porn or forwarding trump superhero memes from my phone on the same network, can TikTok see those?”
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u/rat4204 Mar 24 '23
if the congressman were to actually ask that instead of trying to figure out how things work on the spot from a tech CEO then i would respect him more than any other active politician
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u/IHaveaDegreeInEcon Mar 24 '23
He's probably under oath and doesnt think it can access other devices but wants to make absolutely sure so he doesnt make a technical contradiction if you can send tiktoks to other devices on the same network or something. .
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u/groceriesN1trip Mar 24 '23
We all know what the congressman is alluding to -
Can tiktok access data of any device and any app or document or software that is also currently connected via Wi-Fi. Meaning, is China accessing private data it shouldn’t be through tiktok
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u/PTVoltz Mar 24 '23
He didn't pivot, to me he just seemed confused wtf the guy wanted as an answer.
It's like asking a microwave maker
"So, microwaves use electricity, right?"
"...yeah?"
"And because electricity can cause harm to people your device is unsafe and shouldn't be sold"
"...what? No"
I hate Tik-Tok as much as the next guy, but please don't use shit like this as a reason - there's much better stuff from this same hearing, this clip is just a guy trying to answer questions that the asker doesn't even understand themself.
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Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
It's not a pivot. It's a really confusing question indicating someone has no idea what they're talking about. In fact Id say his answer sounds more harmful than the truth.
Lot of American citizens work at Tik Tok and have access to the whole code. What the app does, and what it can even do (being on android/ios devices) IS and cannot be anything beyond the industry norms.
The only real concern is that TikTok gathers your data like any other app which can potentially be an issue with high figure individuals using it.
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u/Turbulent-Mango-2698 Mar 24 '23
Yep. LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter collect data on users as well and I’m fairly sure they sell that to the highest bidder. That could be just about anyone, including entities that associate with the PRC.
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u/beetrootdip Mar 24 '23
How is it a totally legit question? Most apps can access other devices on the same wifi. Spotify can, so can Netflix, YouTube etc.
It’s like going to a Microsoft exec and asking if ms word has a specific font.
The answer is ‘probably’ but also ‘who cares’ and ‘I don’t know’
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u/Lacerationz Mar 24 '23
Hes saying they dont deviate from industry norms because they all do that. Literally got a pop up on my mac or other device im sure it was mac asking if i allow it to access other devices on the network. It could have been ps5. I hate tik tok and hope it gets banned but i can see how they are framing certain tech questions to make it look bad.
This vid is why i hate tik tok, it makes it seem like this part is some huge gotcha moment but its not. A bunch of devices, apps, technology will ask or have feature to connect to other devices on the same network
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u/SpaceZookeeper2 Mar 24 '23
The answer is yes, because that’s how a network works. Any app on a phone can try to access any device on the home network.
Doesn’t mean it will, but the question was “can”, not “does it”.
It’s a typical stupid question that sounds meaningful but if you know anything about how computers work it’s non-sensical.
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u/RealFknNit0 Mar 24 '23
What's worrying is people don't know this even as alarm bells have been ringing about the Internet of Things for years. If you install a cute Thermostat that you can set with your phone and you do it over wifi, all someone needs to do is hack your Thermostat and your network is compromised.
It's why good security practices need to become commonplace and why we need more technically literate people in positions of power.
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u/No_Ear932 Mar 24 '23
You could ask the same question for any app, but the app is not responsible for the network access it is “given” by the device it runs on. The app does not operate at that layer so does not have ultimate control over what access is available to it.
The question could have been “if TikTok is running on a device connected to a home network, will it detect this and actively attempt to connect to devices locally on that network”
That’s a bit more clear cut and I think is what the questioner was getting at. If you want to talk about who sets the rules for what an app “could” access then you would need to look at what controls the environment the app operates in, such as the phone software or the network equipment used.
Modern enterprise network equipment can actively prevent things connecting to local devices, but the concern here is for home networks, which typically would not be able to control this type of behaviour. So in this case it is the phone that can prevent this, and certainly I know iPhones allow the user to allow “local network” access for certain apps, but the default setting is to not allow this.
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u/SpaceZookeeper2 Mar 24 '23
Yeah, problem is if Mr TikTokanswers the question’s intent (“no”), he’s lying under auth; if he answers the question as it is phrased (“yes”), it’ll be interpreted wrongly.
No winning with idiots in congress.
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u/Wazula23 Mar 24 '23
He phrased it poorly. Mr Tiktok gave the best answer possible.
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u/Serious-Condition778 Mar 24 '23
Mr Tiktok was flabbergasted at how stupidly the question was made and he stattered for a moment there
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u/PriorSecurity9784 Mar 24 '23
He had media training that he shouldn’t make the congresspeople look like idiots, they have to be able to do it on their own
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u/larrygruver Mar 24 '23
Every app asks to access other devices on your network 😂😂 There's a whole setting in iPhones "Allow apps to ask to track". They're asking dumb questions to vilify tiktok. Every app in this day and age is trying to access as many things of yours as possible to sell ad data. Odd how noone in congress ever questioned Facebook showing you ads for things you have talked about and never searched.
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u/Serious-Condition778 Mar 24 '23
The actual answer is "it depends on your router configuration: the ISP defaults are 99% open by default nowadys"
Because fuck off port forwarding on an ISP owned router for a stupid online game.
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u/JoeBoredom Mar 24 '23
He's afraid China will see his hental porn on his router's USB drive.
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u/mizirian Mar 24 '23
He wanted to ask a perfectly valid question tbh, he's just not tech savvy enough to word it correctly.
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u/unresolved_m Mar 24 '23
At this point I doubt anyone in Congress is any good at tech. I remember when Zuckerberg was grilled and it was the same shitshow, politicians showing they have little clue what they're talking about.
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u/ProStrats Mar 24 '23
And it would seem so evident they don't employ the resources to learn or care. It would be so easy for them to hire an expert, and have that person explain the details and help with questions, to them clarify the questions for conversations like this.
Hell they've brought so many people to question, yet they never have an expert at standby to decipher. It's truly just a show, and a shit show at that.
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u/wowzeemissjane Mar 24 '23
They don’t need experts, they are politicians-they ARE experts. At everything.
/s
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u/happydontwait Mar 24 '23
Bide was 65 years old when the iPhone came out. Politicians are so out of touch, they tend to be quite old and behind the times.
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u/GenuisInDisguise Mar 24 '23
This, the politicians who are that stupid and unaware of tech should no longer hold seat, as we enter/have entered the age of advance data access and security manipulation.
It is no wonder there was so much drama around classified document leaks, as people do not have any basic data security hygiene and act like troglodytes around computers.
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u/rat4204 Mar 24 '23
Which is only one thing in a million things wrong with our government. If he's "not tech savvy" why is he questioning a tech CEO about how tech works? The congressman is just going to get confused and turn this into a political witch hunt.
If he REALLY wanted to determine if this app were a danger to Americans he should have researched how this kind of technology works BEFORE the meeting. Then brought the CEO intelligent questions about the apps ability to penetrate cyber security on a Home LAN. Instead he's wasting everyone's time trying to figure out on the spot.
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u/Just_Mumbling Mar 24 '23
Ah yes, the political world…. If you’ve ever been close to it, 24-7, it’s all about being re-elected, every minute of their day. He doesn’t want to invest anymore time in preparing for this committee meeting beyond what his supporters (voters to lobbyists) want to hear him say. After this, he’ll zoom out to a fundraiser or his aides will hook him up to do phone time to drum up $$ for the next campaign. They are all the same, either side of the aisle. It is exhausting for him, and delivers marginal results to the country. The cycle demands it.
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u/cannotbelievethisman Mar 24 '23
i feel like if you are speaking publicly there should be somebody to verify that the questions you plan to ask make sense
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u/BrooklynBillyGoat Mar 24 '23
If u word it in a way it's that's understood that's all that matters I understood him, most tech peoples job is communicate with people who don't understand so feel free to ask as needed
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u/Kalayo0 Mar 24 '23
No. In legal contexts, such as the video above, precise language is extremely important.
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u/DWM88
Mar 24 '23
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Lots of people in this comment section acting like they are researchers at NIST. Imho this is just corporate warfare through a guise of govt oversight. If anyone is going to have a problem with TikTok, then they should have a problem with all social media collection policies.
These apps are free because YOU are the product
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u/QuantumCat2019 Mar 24 '23
pretty much. But I think a lot of people on reddit don't care when it is an American company because they are American and so it is their "own" bad guys, whereas as a non American I view all that shit in a very different way - especially since the NSA is scrapping our entire internet for emtadata. It is all bad from every side.
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u/Xeillan Mar 24 '23
It's simple. Who has to gain from a TikTok ban? Meta.
Who came under serious fire for selling data? Meta.
Who copied the short form videos that TikTok has? Meta.
This goes back to one members statements about his granddaughters data being possibly sold and asking where's our money? Who is more than likely funding a corporate witch hunt for some kickbacks to Congress? Meta.
This entire thing is a joke.
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u/Readjusted__Citizen Mar 24 '23
Google is also upset they're losing massive amounts of web traffic too tictok.
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u/Localworrywart Mar 24 '23
It is a joke and it shows once again that people with money have a bigger say in politics than everybody else.
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u/Playstatiaholic Mar 24 '23
Holy shit, I didn’t think of that. It makes sense. fucking Zuck is on his bullshit again
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u/Finn_3000 Mar 24 '23
Yea its so clearly meta and google lobbyists stirring shit up to eliminate the main competitor under the guise of 'national security' lmao
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u/TheMagicalLawnGnome Mar 24 '23
So, this is a great example of a major problem - we're having technically illiterate politicians grill far more sophisticated industry executives. Not trying to blame this guy specifically, not his fault he's not a computer expert, but there's got to be a better way to conduct these hearings.
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u/nofxy Mar 24 '23
It's up to leadership (our representatives) to consult with experts if they lack expertise in ANY area they're dealing with. It's his own dumbass fault that he couldn't ask better questions.
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u/arondaniel Mar 24 '23
TikTok accesses your wi-fi enabled refrigerator. It will then change the freezer temp to make your ice cream melty.
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u/gainzdoc Mar 24 '23
Watching congressmen trying to understand the very same technology they vehemently try to pass bills on (e.g. net neutrality) is comical.
"So, this thing you have that uses the internet. Does it use the internet? How much fastly does it use the interwebs? Is it many much betterer than Bluetooth? Does it try to teach the other devices Chinese?"
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u/Possibility_Just Mar 24 '23
It was a set up question to his next one, to ask if tiktok can access other devices on the network.
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u/polymathicus Mar 24 '23
I hate that they couldn't even get his name right for a Congressional hearing. "Zi" is part of his first name, not his middle name.
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u/russcastella Mar 24 '23
FFSSSSS these questions need to be hyper specific so there is not slithering possible.
If I have TikTok on my phone and I access it while my phone is connected to my home WIFI Network, can TikTok app recognize, identify, observe, or access any of my other devices on that wifi network in any way.
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u/PatientReference8497 Mar 24 '23
The short answer is yes, and it's probably one of 12 apps on your phone collecting that data
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u/CapableDistance5570 Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
See, the thing is, you don't even realize it, but your improved question shows me that you also do not understand how the internet actually works.
And I'm really deep into pretty much exactly the same industry in question, internet/data.
Because the answer to your question would end up being exactly the same. In this instance, to you, someone who does not know how it actually functions, it may seem like the TikTok guy is slithering, but he's genuinely calculating like 60 different things in his head because it's way way way more complicated than that. He would have to ask like 20 follow up questions to be able to answer it correctly.
Here, I'll throw you a few of these questions. They may seem stupid to you but they're genuine questions I would need you to answer to clarify further so I can understand what you want me to explain if I were in that situation.
- By in any way, do you actually mean in any way, even if it's irrelevant to the point you're trying to get across?
- What do you mean by recognize? Like a basic identifier that's floating around or do you mean actually knowing anything about the device?
- You mentioned recognizing and identifying, how do these two words differ for you in how you understand the matter? What would be the difference between identifying and recognizing?
- When you say observe, do you mean making a note of such a device possibly being around or do you mean actually observing something inside/around the device?
- When you say access, do you mean literally able to log into the other device or just that it has a pathway to it?
- How is your home WiFi network configured?
- What permission settings do you have enabled for the app, and what features are you using?
- If the two devices are both on your WiFi network and you're in the same house and sending eachother videos, would you consider this to be a part of your question?
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u/Kerensky97 Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
Spotify can see other devices in your network and access them to cast music to them. Youtube can see other devices in your network and access them to cast video. If I owned tiktok I'd add this as a cool feature as well.
Like those other apps you have a screen pop up asking if you'd like to enable to ability.
Does it mean you're gathering network data, no.
People need to quit acting like TikTok is different just because it's not a US company. There's far more spying going by scouring all the data people willingly put on social media or other public records. Like immigrants from overseas making a name for themselves in North Wales, Pennsylvania. 3 minutes, 1 search, info you posted (and possibly out of date).
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u/RateMyPhalanges Mar 24 '23
Well it just follows the industry standard so...next question plz.
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u/TotallynotJaun Mar 24 '23
People who are completely fine with just banning TikTok are also naive, the reasonable solution is strict regulation over data collection. We don’t have that. meta (Facebook) and google have been lobbying the government to ban TikTok out right because they can’t compete with it. They can’t control the information. I’m able to see any political view on TikTok but when I go on instagram or YouTube it’s forced content I don’t want to watch. y’all should be concerned about the government being given the tools to censor any information that comes from outside the US. and remember that if it wasn’t for TikTok MSM wouldn’t have picked up the east Palestine derailment.
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u/nieminen432 Mar 24 '23
This, 100%.
Also as I understand it, TikTok is already restricted in the US. The US I think contracted with oracle (barf) to hold the US based data from TikTok, and sits behind a firewall. Theoretically the US knows exactly what data is going from the app to China. Although I'm having a hard time confirming this, it's hard to get a straight answer via Google as every article attempts to spin it to their narrative. I see that around June TikTok does seem to migrate all their data to oracle (barf) servers, but can't verify anything further right now.
The US we live in now is just afraid of information being uncontrolled. Because the more people know and understand how shitty most government elects are at their jobs, the less likely they'll stay there.
I hate lobbying with a fiery passion. I understand that sometimes it's used for good, but 99% of the time it's for big companies to pass legislation that helps them get bigger and get more money. (Look at intuit and hr block lobbying (successfully) to keep tax filings as complicated as possible so that they stay relevant)
While I understand and fully agree that there is shit content on TikTok (stupid kids starting stupid and/or harmful trends, straight up misleading information, etc), there's also tons of excellent content - highly beneficial advice and information on any topic you can imagine.
If u can't teach your children to post responsibility, and know how to avoid dangerous content, then you need to reevaluate your effectiveness as a parent, or restrict access to the internet. All that said, kids are stupid, and will make mistakes. It's the parents job to try and limit those mistakes so that irreparable harm doesn't happen due to their stupid mistakes (either to them or others).
Is TikTok collecting personal data to sell to advertisers and other third party data retailers? Almost definitely. But so is Google, Microsoft, apple, Netflix, Hulu, Facebook (especially), LinkedIn, etc. If the product is free, YOU are how it makes money. Do I like that this is how it all works? No particularly, but it's what we have now, maybe in the future it can be regulated more. I personally turn off all "targeted" settings and have to trust they do what they say.
I'm for TikTok right now, mostly because I've learned so much (science, car purchase advice, home inspections, the fact that blackrock is the company primarily responsible for the insane rise in house and housing costs, and that blackrock is a huge investor for the railway that - due to widespread and systematic loosening and removal of safety measures - is directly responsible for the derailment in Palestine, and much more).
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u/Junebuff77 Mar 24 '23
This is like watching my dad ask me questions about my job in technology. But on camera and in a legal setting. First rule of law: don’t ask a question that you don’t already know the answer to. Not sure why they can’t find someone who understands this stuff to help them with the questions if the goal is to actually understand the risk.
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u/radium_eater Mar 24 '23
example 83857373 of why having a bunch of decrepit dinosaurs in legislative positions is ridiculous
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u/outamyhead Mar 24 '23
Meanwhile Amazon Ring doorbells will try and jump on neighboring Ring device networks and utilize them for sending and receiving data, but they aren't being asked why by Congress?
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u/Hocojerry Mar 24 '23
At first I thought the congressman was an idiot and didn't understand technology... But then his follow-up question was actually a pretty good one. Unfortunately the CEO did the..." I'm not sure...i''ll have to get back to you" denial
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u/lightwolv Mar 24 '23
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you. Any device on your network can possibly access other devices on your network. For instance, any app on my phone can airdrop to another device on my network. So the question is poorly phrased because CAN is usually a yes.
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u/nofxy Mar 24 '23
IT guy here who agrees with you and wonders why people are defending this congressman's idiotic framing of the question. What a wasted opportunity.
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u/Content_Flamingo_583 Mar 24 '23
I mean, the real question is ‘is TikTok collecting more data about the other devices on your network than other apps.’
And the answer the CEO gave is no, it isn’t.
Really feels asked and answered to me. I guess you could wonder if the CEO is telling the truth. But there was nothing interesting or revealing about the exchange OP posted imo.
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u/_coldharbour_ Mar 24 '23
I feel like what he was trying to ask was
'is tiktok maliciously designed to find and extract any and all data is can from any and all devices beyond its requirements for functionality '
Or
'is tiktok stealing my shit'
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u/Kerensky97 Mar 24 '23
It's not denial. He's not a programmer, lots of apps on your phone can be streamed to other connected devices. He's aware of this being a possibility so he said he'd find out. And if TikTok can connecte, it's perfectly legal if it has the same popup that all apps have asking if you want to let it connect to other devices.
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u/Content_Flamingo_583 Mar 24 '23
‘Can your app access other devices on your network’ is not a good question at all.
Yes, every app can access the other devices on your network. This is a basic functionality for a tremendous amount of common apps.
What exactly can they see is a much better question. And the only reasonable answer to that question is ‘what is standard for the industry’, exactly what the CEO said, because the precise level of permissions and data shared between your different devices on a network is extremely nuanced and complicated and depends on the devices.
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u/rat4204 Mar 24 '23
The CEO did the "I can't understand your uninformed and poorly worded question, so I'll answer best I can but I'm not going to bury myself under your hill of ignorance"
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u/turtyurt Mar 24 '23
I don’t think I’d have had the composure of the TikTok CEO. Some (re: all) of the questions asked were such bullshit and they treated him with such disrespect it was enraging.
If the congressman is worried about an app accessing other information on his wifi network, he better start living without wifi or any other apps, period. Not just TikTok.
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u/anonlasagna23 Mar 24 '23
Don’t use Tiktok, but what he’s asking is something that Amazon and Facebook already does to us. He’s only drilling Tiktok’s CEO because he’s Chinese.
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u/BroxigarZ Mar 24 '23
These congressional hearings always feel like an act/show a ruse of fallacy. The questions asked are always, ALWAYS completely shit, and worded horrendously. If he asked the question correctly it’s far more damning:
“Can TikTok access additional devices/platforms/services and data (private or public) without the users awareness, consent, and acceptance of access when connected to a home, private or most concerning business Wi-Fi network?”
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u/sugoiiiidesunee Mar 24 '23
I don’t get why this circus keeps old people from asking dumb questions and why doesn’t congress gets a panel from oracle corp to agree with his allegations all data will be in the US? Why can’t we have cyber security engineers or actual people who know a thing or two about engineering? Every congressman woman or what ever was bad, the third congressman was so confused by his questions everyone had their admin probably write the questions for them.
I don’t like TikTok but the guy answer most of their questions and some questions you cannot answer because they are either too broad or not easy to explain to people who don’t even know how to use their car infotainment.
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u/PurplePotamus Mar 24 '23
I feel like a smarter way to ask that question is whether the app accesses or gathers data about other devices on the network and whether the app needs permissions to do so, like accessing your own phones camera.
That's a real cyber attack vector, in an average family, you have one LAN. Dad could be working from home, kids could be playing on TikTok. TikTok gathers info on the devices on the LAN, and could determine if dad's work laptop has a vulnerability.
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u/dgdio Mar 24 '23
If you trust China and its treatment of the Uyghurs you should trust TikTok.
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u/Kadmium Mar 24 '23
Kinda doubt the TikTok developers are personally involved in the Uyghur genocide.
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u/thegrayryder Mar 24 '23
The number of comments in here that don’t understand why this is cringe is telling. The app has no more access to your network than any other app on your phone and it’s not the CEO’s job to educate you on how your own network works. His answer here is actually reasonable and the same answer ANYONE in tech would give you if you were talking about their network enabled app lol
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u/Exarch_Thomo Mar 24 '23
Dude has one hell of a poker face to not react to those asinine questions
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u/Federal_Promotion_44 Mar 24 '23
No one puts a gun to peoples heads and says “download TikTok or else”.
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u/soliddingo Mar 24 '23
long story short... the US gov is ok with MURICAN companies stealing your data, just not foreigners
lolololololol
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Mar 24 '23
C-SPAN is a five ring circus anytime a tech guru comes in to get roasted and wrist-slapped by the worlds worst Grandpa Forum.
The men running this country have zero (0) clue how the physical world works.
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u/Alarmed-Direction500 Mar 24 '23
Is there any evidence that tiktok is any worse than Twitter, Facebook, google, etc? I’m pretty sure all the major platforms are up to no good. Except Reddit of course. There’s no way Reddit can do wrong..
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u/BellowsPDX Mar 24 '23
It's so hard when Congress barely understands how a lot of this technology functions. I think it was similar with Zuckerberg when they were asking him questions that barely made any sense
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u/Champion_General Mar 24 '23
Replace TikTok with any other app, a.o. Reddit, Twitter, Facebook and the conversation could have been the same. Why this trigger content?
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u/1984Slice Mar 24 '23
Same dipshits that wrote the Patriot Act...can't make this hypocricy up. And also, betcha he watches some weirdo porn with questions like those lol
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u/glorious_reptile Mar 24 '23
"Is TikTok in my home touching my young girls .. phone... RIGHT NOW??"
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u/slobberknocker23 Mar 24 '23
Genuine question: Why would I care if a Chinese company is collecting information on me? Are they going to determine my biggest fear and exploit me for it? Not sure exactly what people are concerned about but would genuinely like to learn more.
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u/nofxy Mar 24 '23
The most important question is what difference would it make if China can just buy the data from facebook/meta?
The real answer is TikTok is eating everyone else's lunch and Google/Facebook have lobbied congress to make sure they have no competition.
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u/slobberknocker23 Mar 24 '23
That’s the only thing I could think of as well. I don’t understand why it would concern any given American citizen that the Chinese government has information about them. What could they possibly do with this information besides optimally advertise to you?
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u/Dark-Pomegranate Mar 24 '23
This exactly- it should be the peoples choice. Give us the info on what they do and let us decide if we want to give them our data- just like all American made apps they all steal our data and collect info- but who gaf I’m a nobody in a sea of nobodies.
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u/slobberknocker23 Mar 24 '23
And it is the people’s choice! I don’t have any social media other than a FB account and that is purely for the purpose of giving my older relatives a platform to send me messages.
If you believe you are so important that there would be valuable and/or sensitive insight to be gained by tracking you - Then, by all means, boycott TikTok. (Noticed I say “you” a couple times. Was not trying to direct this at the commenter. )
For everyone else, I don’t get it. What information about you is so sensitive that it could be exploited against your will? Or if you simply appreciate your privacy - like myself - don’t download or participate in social media apps. It is not complicated but yet we have managed to turn this into a opinion piece. What’s new?
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u/TheStormWire Mar 24 '23
at least Chew goes straight to the point, not like our biggest lizzard Zucc
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u/Casique720 Mar 24 '23
The issue is that Congress needs to have people that know how shit works to probe TikTok and other tech companies. Hire engineers that can look at TikTok’s architecture and services and question them about it.
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u/bdigital4 Mar 24 '23
Our government leaders are dumber than they should be and we are not upset enough about it.
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u/Positive_Scallion_29 Mar 24 '23
But the industrial norm is to see what other devices are there and siphon data off them
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u/AdditionalBat393 Mar 24 '23
Are these tech guys that come in for questioning briefed on the fact that they will be receiving q and a from a group of 2nd graders. I am curious.
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u/JDM_enjoyer Mar 24 '23
If I recall correctly, it says in their TOS that you have to allow them to access all devices on any network the device connects to.
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u/bazf303 Mar 24 '23
I might be wrong, but I think the OS itself gathers some network device info. Like the app at least can have the access to the files on the phone, e.g. hosts file which already may contain some network devices addresses, so the app do not need to scan the network. Moreover, technically I have an optical network terminal and router, so can those be considered as devices, which are accessed by the app?
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u/warriormango1 Mar 24 '23
"we dont do anything beyond the industry norms"
In other words, we access just as much other data as possible just like all of the other unethical US companies.
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u/creepsnutsandpervs Mar 24 '23
Why do we allow non tech people to question tech people? Why don’t they just consult a subject matter expert first to make sure their question goes down the path they actually want it to?
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u/Matty9180 Mar 24 '23
I always hate when congress interviews tech companies. You can really see how they have 0 idea what they are talking about.
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u/ImpossibleJoke7456 Mar 24 '23
This is a valid question if you don’t understand how apps work and you’re afraid the Chinese government is going to change the temperature of your internet connected freezer.
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u/iamamuttonhead Mar 24 '23
That is simply too technical of a question for a public hearing. I am 100% certain that Hudson, who is asking the question, has no idea what he is really asking.
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u/Jhebdon99 Mar 24 '23
How is it baffling to so many people that an app developed by a company in a country with one of the most corrupt standing governments is a threat to national security.
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u/Shmirgla Mar 24 '23
Why does no one have a problem with Facebook, Apple and Google? Do they not collect data from billions of people every day? Tiktok is not any different except for its country of origin, nor is Chinese government any more corrupt than an American one, along with its elites.
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u/slobberknocker23 Mar 24 '23
I think the answer is that the anti-TikTok rhetoric originates from the same companies you named. To my knowledge, TikTok’s data collection is no more invasive than its USA-based constituents. TikTok simply figured out how to engage eyeballs better than the US social media corporations. This has negatively impacted the US corporations revenue, and their response is to frame TikTok as a villain for carrying out the same procedures carried out within their own corporations.
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u/lynch1812 Mar 24 '23
Because American’s apps is spreading freedom while the Chinese ones is spreading covid-19.
/s
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u/Traditional_Tomato48 Mar 24 '23
I get what he's trying to ask.... But he sounds so stupid asking it.
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u/LividParsnip3402 Mar 24 '23
Lmao when my manager has to answer a stupid question
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u/MrMoosetach2 Mar 24 '23
Always a good idea to have a bunch of middle age white guys ask technology questions…next up in CNN3- we will ask a blind man to describe the Mona Lisa in detail 🤣. Can’t these dickweeds get subject matter experts to help them before they waste time and money on this ?
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u/kdb1991 Mar 24 '23
What a moron. It’s so embarrassing that the people in charge have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
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u/joculator Mar 24 '23
Really not all that controversial a response. Of course the app can access the network.
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u/Mauve_Unicorn Mar 24 '23
It's the second question that matters. Dude was too stupid to really understand his own first question, but whomever wrote it for him at least had a good reason & follow-up that made sense.
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