r/pcmasterrace • u/DesertFroggo Ryzen 7 3700x, Radeon RX 5700, EndeavourOS • Jan 26 '23
We can torpedo this myth now Meme/Macro
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u/Ichironi i7-12700k | RX 6900 XT | 32GB 3600 MHz Jan 26 '23
Steam Deck was a great milestone for Linux Gaming as a whole.
But I would be lying if I said you could game however you want on Linux, you are still mostly constrained to Proton and Lutris. Once you can play games without stupid compatibility layers and you can use whatever input device you want (like VR), than I would say we are at the "Golden Age" of linux gaming, until then we have work to do.
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u/mdielmann Jan 26 '23
There was a chicken-and-egg problem before. People weren't gaming on Linux, so developers weren't making games for Linux. Now we have a much larger number of quite visibly Linux machines being used to play games, one way or another. This makes native support more attractive to developers.
Also, you talk about compatibility layers on Linux as if there aren't multiple DirectX and .Net Framework versions installed on most gamers' systems. The only difference is whether those compatibility layers are third-party or not.
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u/Ilktye Jan 26 '23
Why would anyone develop native Linux games when they can just develop a Windows version and rely on Proton running it. One version to support, runs on both.
The reality is native Linux gaming is not going to happen.
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u/xylotism Ryzen 3900X - RTX 2060 - 32GB DDR4 Jan 26 '23
Yeah. Native Linux is still bad for gaming. Linux just has a (better) compatibility layer that's good at running games not made for Linux now.
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u/CronyAkatsuki Jan 26 '23
Thing is cause of the compatibility layer, most people most likely will just target the compatibility layer cause to support linux, you also got to take into account the diff versions of library's distro's will use,...
Steam has some bypass for it with it's runtime but that still doesnt really help the non steam games.
EDIT: also cause of the compatibility layer some games actually run smoother than on native windows/linux, with dxvk even usable on windows to get better performance.
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u/Most-ekow Jan 26 '23
Ah, I see we’ve moved past the browsers and now we are back to old faithful, Linux memes. One thing about this subreddit is it definitely stays consistent. You can take a break from here for years, come back, and it’s the same posts.
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u/DidItForButter Muhfuckin' PC, Bud Jan 26 '23
Once a year, poeple from all walks of life visit r/pcmasterrace and wait with anticipation for the first Linux meme to emerge. There are no guarantees, however, which would be disappointing.
As quickly as hope waned, as luck would have it, a budding Linux meme restores the vigor of the people.
It is a sign that today officially marks Spring
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u/The_Unreal Specs/Imgur Here Jan 26 '23
Linus Torvalds emerges from his burrow around this time of year. Sadly, he sees his shadow and returns, signaling another six weeks of Microsoft dominance.
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Jan 26 '23
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u/Nice_Guy_AMA Jan 26 '23
I respectfully disagree, asshole. Everyone must share my opinion and it is one size fits all.
Edge is the best browser, but you have to use it on a Mac to unlock its full potential, which is fine, because PC gaming is peaked with the iMac G3 Blue. Everything else is just propaganda from the corporate fat cats in Big Linux.
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u/YouDamnHotdog Jan 26 '23
My iMac G3 can literally play every game that I wanna which moves the goalpost to my arbitrary standard
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u/finally_trustless 1800x | 32GB | 25TB HDDs & SSDs | Arch btw Jan 26 '23
Linux is good for a lot of things... VR is not one of them.
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u/Lukinader Jan 26 '23
Same issue for me, a software I rely on, Virtual Desktop is not supported on linux at all
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u/nachog2003 linux gamer idiot woman Jan 26 '23
ALVR works on Linux, but the main problem is SteamVR being a pile of shit on Linux, Monado works way better.
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u/TimeGoddess_ RTX 4090, i7 13700k, 32GB DDR4, LG CX, Jan 26 '23
Or HDR
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u/obj_Obj 6650xt│ Linux│KDE Jan 26 '23
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u/Tanawat_Jukmonkol Arch KDE RTX3050 Laptop Jan 26 '23
*yet.
I hope.
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u/DeltyOverDreams i5-7300U, 8GB 2133MHz DDR4, Intel HD 620 Jan 26 '23
2024 will be year of Linux VR desktop!
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u/whodo-i-thinkiam Linux Jan 26 '23
Linux gaming is excellent these days, and it's all because of Valve putting so much time and money into proton.
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u/Maxwelpet Jan 26 '23
Love my steam deck. Very few games of my 700 tame library can not be played.
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u/ImWadeWils0n Jan 26 '23
How is the quality? Did you get a dock? And did you get the most expensive one?
Sorry, just trying to judge if it’s worth getting one and I really want one
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u/Killer57 Jan 26 '23
I am typing this response on my deck, I got the 64gb, the beautiful thing about the deck is the upgradability, I replaced the 64gb with a 1tb ssd. With over 200 playable games in my library I love this thing.
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u/5pr173_ Jan 26 '23
Just switched to Linux as my daily driver and I'm never going back to Windows.
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u/kb4000 Ryzen 5800X3D - 3080 Ti Jan 26 '23
You must not play many AAA multiplayer games. Most have anticheat that is difficult to run outside of windows.
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u/5pr173_ Jan 26 '23
Your right I mainly play single player games.
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u/kb4000 Ryzen 5800X3D - 3080 Ti Jan 26 '23
Yeah I could totally see Linux being good for that type of gaming.
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u/flamedog40 R9-7900X | 3080 | 32GB DDR5 Jan 26 '23
It's not a myth that that Linux developers have failed to create reliable distros and emulation layers that allow for most games to be playable.
It's taken outside actors (e.g. Valve) to build and refine an OS environment that makes it approachable to the layman, and works without crashing.
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u/premell Jan 26 '23
Who are "Linux developers"? I mean if valve hire people to work on Linux gaming they are Linux developers aswell. Most work done on low level in Linux is done by companies
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u/Doom972 i5-9600K | RTX 2080 Super | 32GB | 2TB Samsung QVO 860 | Manjaro Jan 26 '23
Linux is decentralized. It's all "outside actors" adding code and making it better. The Linux foundation mostly moderates what goes in.
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u/Miteigi Jan 26 '23
No, Linux developers have built reliable emulation layers in the past (i.e. Lutris, Dosbox, WINE etc), and there were loads of Linux patches for individual games.
What Valve did was: 1. Bring their storefront to Linux so it was easier to obtain games, 2. Spearheaded a project to emulate what games relied on from Windows, 3. Released a product based on Linux to encourage developers to develop for it.
Proton is an open-source project, meaning that anyone can contribute and anyone can fork it and modify it in their own way. Valve started the project and made it easy to use through their existing infrastructure.
Think of what gaming on Windows was like before Steam and other stores, and that's what Linux was like pre-Proton.
It's got to the point now where I solely run Linux. I use it for gaming and don't notice any difference compared to Windows. I have ~1600 games, and if a game doesn't run, it's usually fixed by copy/pasting a single launch option line from ProtonDB.
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u/kaszak696 Ryzen 7 5800X | RTX 3070 | 64GB 3600MHz | X570S AORUS MASTER Jan 26 '23
And Proton wouldn't even exist without WINE, it's basically a fork with support from WINE devs.
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u/zephyrtr Jan 26 '23
I dont like WINE because its name is self referential and recursion scares me.
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u/i_ate_god Specs/Imgur here Jan 26 '23
does recursion scare you because you're scared of recursion?
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u/jplayzgamezevrnonsub Fedora Kinoite / R2700x / 16GB Ram / RX6700xt Jan 26 '23
Don't forget DXVK or D3D11. Translating windows games would be nothing without graphics lol
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u/zeer88 Ryzen 5 3600 • RX 6700XT • 16GB DDR4 • LG 27GL850 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
Yeah, the tools were there, but Valve gave it a boost and packaged it nicely into a good-looking, gaming dedicated OS. It also helps that Steam is the most popular gaming storefront, it helps SteamOS reach a lot more people.
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Jan 26 '23 edited Feb 20 '23
[deleted]
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u/EnkiiMuto Jan 26 '23
Worth mentioning that valve does bring its money to the table for those individuals not to work in their free time.
Valve didn't overtook KDE, but hired the company that mostly manages it for some good things.
It also brings their skills to the spotlight, since Valve itself want to build an environment that isn't reliable on Windows. If other companies decide they rely a bit too much on windows for their own good, joining the party is right there.
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u/Urbs97 Fedora 37 | R9 7900X | RX 6750 XT | 3440x1440@165hz Jan 26 '23
Proton is also a tool collection and uses WINE, DXVK, VKD3D. WINE for example goes back ages.
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u/schaka Jan 26 '23
The DX translation layers have come this far because of Valve. Them paying the devs and spearheading this whole thing is arguably what brought the last push for gaming on Linux to be fully viable.
What I'm now looking forward to is a conscious move away from DX for game engines and full native Vulkan support. Devs being asked to implement this from scratch for every game is just too much, that's why we need the engines to push it
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u/Urbs97 Fedora 37 | R9 7900X | RX 6750 XT | 3440x1440@165hz Jan 26 '23
Valve did the boost to the finish line but a lot came from Linux enthusiasts for free.
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u/vgf89 Steam Deck l Desktop Ryzen 3600X, 5700XT, 16GB RAM Jan 26 '23
Hell, DXVK pretty much started because a dedicated weeb wanted to play Nier Automata on Linux. It was the first working AAA game for that particular translation layer
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u/Agret i7 6700k @ 4.28Ghz, GTX 1080, 32GB RAM Jan 26 '23
Never underestimate the power of an androids booty.
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u/Fire_monger Powerrider1500 Jan 26 '23
Yes. I remember gaming on my unibody MacBook, where the first half of it's life I ran MAC OSX, and second half was an Ubuntu distro.
Getting things to work well in WINE was an adventure and a half. I remember spending hours with a friend trying to get Black Mesa running, and the game still bugged out.
Compare that to my steam deck, where I click install and launch the game, and it works flawlessly 95% of the time.
It took a lot of people and companies to get here. It took AMD owning the console hardware for 2 generations in a row, forcing everyone to x86 optimizations in development.
It took years for the AMD Linux drivers to get as good as they are today.
It took years for WINE to knock out the bugs, and to encourage tools like playOnLinux or ProtonDB to be developed.
It cost Valve alone 3 commercial hardware failures before they came out with a device that actually encouraged Linux adoption.
It took years of Indie developers being the only ones who released games on Linux to provide the community basics of development and hope for the future. (SHOUT-OUT: FTL: Faster than Light).
The growth of gaming on Linux has been a team effort across hundreds of organizations and millions of people. We are past the age of scientific/technical development where one guy in a room can finish the project from start to finish.
I haven't even recognized Linus yet.... No one innovates alone.
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u/Agret i7 6700k @ 4.28Ghz, GTX 1080, 32GB RAM Jan 26 '23
Valve also got EasyAntiCheat to create Linux support for EAC protected games.
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u/Shadowex3 Jan 26 '23
Valve did exactly what Torvalds himself said they would do: Put their foot down on people fucking up userspace and made things sensible, straightforward, and easy for the end user.
Linux's problem is that the vast majority of people don't want to spend hours searching dozens of forum posts, stackoverflow questions, and badly archived listserv emails from the last 5 years to piece together some obscure command line based solution that may or may not work for their specific problem.
Only it's not just obscure edge cases where that happens, it's everything that hasn't received a major concerted effort to get running on linux or otherwise built natively for it. And even then you're still fucked if you don't have the right version of the right dependencies on the right version of the right distro.
Meanwhile on windows they can doubleclick the installer of basically anything they find and that's it. They're done.
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u/danbert2000 Ryzen 5800X • RTX 3080 10GB • 16 GB DDR4 3600 MHz Jan 26 '23
Microsoft's obsession with backwards compatibility is a huge boon to video gamers. Most games just work, even from decades ago. If they don't, there are usually a few tweaks to get it going again, or you can sometimes even use the built in compatibility modes.
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u/amd2800barton Jan 26 '23
This exactly. I’ve dabbled with Linux off and on for decades, sometimes I’ve committed to and stuck with it for a year or more but I always hate using it because inevitably I need to do something that should be simple, but a compatibility problem makes it not work unless you’re a developer. For example a recent experience I had:
- I want to run UniFi controller on my single board computer running Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
- oh UniFi requires Mongodb but that didn’t install properly.
- oh mongo for arm64 has a dependency which basically isn’t supported on modern systems and if i do anything more to force it then other things will break
- guess it’s time to try out docker
- ok why didn’t docker install? Because it requires Linux kernel 5.0 and I’m only on 4.9 - why didn’t it tell me that anywhere when installing or trying to run
- how do I update Ubuntu 22.04 to have kernel 5.x? Oh it ships with kernel 5.15 so what’s wrong that I’ve got 4.9
- turns out the developers of my SBC complied their Linux distro with the latest Ubuntu, but a much older Linux kernel, and none of the kernel updates will install
- so to decide: compile my own distro of Ubuntu with the necessary drivers for my SBC and correct kernel, or go with a random community compiled version of dubious source
- eventually get Ubuntu running and docker installed. Portainer running to manage docker
- ok why can’t any of my access points talk to the controller? Oh because there’s a known bit very obscure error in Portainer that the ports don’t get set up correctly in the GUI so back to docker via CLI
- oh whoops I had a slight typo in command line and now I’ve blocked SSH access to the SBC, so I have to go reboot it while it’s connected to a spare monitor and keyboard to fix the mistaken port redirect
Each of those steps was separated by sometimes hours of googling, reading forum, GitHub, and Reddit comments. Often the comments were contradictory or ended up in flame wars so I have to go research both methods to see what one is correct and turns out neither is. I haven’t given up, but just to not drive myself insane, you know that I did? Installed UniFi controller on my desktop PC with about three clicks including windows firewall and user access control.
For all the progress the Linux community has made, it can still quickly become a nightmare of bad compatibility, with worse documentation. Unless you’re getting paid to do the troubleshooting, or you enjoy it as a hobby, it’s just too big of a barrier to entry for most people - even reasonably tech literate people.
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u/Oxygenenjoyer Jan 26 '23
You are really reaching for using the word "reliable" to describe mentioned emulator layers. They just barely work and not with all games.
They have come a long way for sure but ot will take another 5 years for something better than windows for games to appear.
Also it's not all linuxs fault, game developers make games basically only windows in mind.
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u/R00M4NN Jan 26 '23
Thats What im saying! Linux devs created multiple way more reliable emulation layers than Microsoft ever did. (Im talking about you, WSL)
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u/pollux65 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
Same bro I tried Linux waaaay back in 2016 and I hated gnome but I didn't know about extensions at the time and games weren't supported at all back then like only a couple from valve and using wine like overwatch. Now tho running nobara and multiple other distros for a couple of months, finding what I like and dislike I can happily say that nobara+gnome+extensions+ glorious's amazing work on the distro I can do everything I want to do either it be making content for my small channel or Livestream and edit videos with obs+gimp+kdenlive or play some of the latest games with proton. Sure there are still a lot of small issues that need to be dealt with and the whole Linux community is working on it. That's one of the greatest things with this os is everyone is working on whatever project or some of the core libraries and the Linux kernel to improve the experience for all of us running the os :) not locked away under some huge greedy company. Gaming companies I would say are ignoring us or down right saying that Linux isn't secure and if they added support with those anticheat's into proton they would get more cheaters which I would say isn't cool :( but it seems valve is trying rlly hard to change that with their steamdeck :) hopefully soon we get more games supported like destiny 2, rainbow six siege, bf2042
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u/_gianni-r Desktop Jan 26 '23
Are Valve’s devs not also Linux devs? Where is this distinction drawn, is it between who develops on a payroll & who doesn’t? All it took was a large investment into the platform from an established company to make Linux a second-class citizen at worst when it comes to gaming. It’s certainly a better experience than on a Mac.
Windows has the benefit of dozens of, as you put it, ‘outside actors’ investing in Windows as a gaming platform. In terms of scale, it’s not even a contest.
What makes a platform is these ‘outside actors’. Microsoft does just barely enough to keep them interested, it is their efforts that make Windows a joy to game on.
Meanwhile, ask anyone who’s ever used Linux how they feel about Nvidia’s treatment of the platform. Incomparable.
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u/Yaarmehearty Jan 26 '23
More like the largest GPU developer stood in the way of drivers created by the community and neglected their own for years.
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u/bosoneando Jan 26 '23
Something doesn't work: "Linux developers"
Something works: "Outside actors"Newsflash: Linux is an open source project. Any developer that contributes to it is a Linux developer.
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u/Unwashed_villager 5600X | 32GB | RTX 3070Ti | Jan 26 '23
It's the same like with Skyrim. The base game sucks big time, only the mod developers keeping it alive, and they are doing it well. This means that the problem is the same as with mods: there's always a risk to the game/mod gets broken with an update. It can happen with only a few kilobyte patch, as we seen it many times. Until there will be a "middle man" between the OS and the game this risk never will be zero.
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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jan 26 '23
Linux developers have failed to create reliable distros and emulation layers that allow for most games to be playable
i dont think thats really the case, it just takes the linux world longer to get support cuz game devs wont make stuff for linux so the linux community has to do it. Since the linux community is dedicated but not as well funded, it just takes longer. They've not failed, there isnt a time limit, its just taken this long to get gaming on linux to a point where its viable. plus on top of development, its a constant game of cat and mouse. since game publishers/developers wont support it, constant fixes, patches, workaround etc have to always be sorted out first before any forward movement can be achieved.
what im say'n is its not really the fault of the linux devs, they're doing the best they can, its the upward battle they're constantly fighting cuz none of the devs want to support the system, the ongoing battle of chicken or the egg. devs wont support it cuz not enough users, not enough users cuz devs wont support it.
but I will say it does seem like it took much too long to get to where we're at now. if it wasnt for valve funding the advancement of gaming on linux it would likely only be a little better than it was when dxvk was new.
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u/JaesopPop i5-11400 | 6900XT | 32GB 3600 Jan 26 '23
It's not a myth that that Linux developers have failed to create reliable distros and emulation layers that allow for most games to be playable.
Not sure anyone said it was. It doesn't matter who made Proton, what matters is that it exists.
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u/Hire_Ryan_Today 128G DDR4 3200, 4TB RAID0 NVME, 12900k, 3090TI Jan 26 '23
Sure but it means this meme is a dumb circle jerk
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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jan 26 '23
this is pcmasterrace .. what dumb shit memes posted here are not circle jerks?
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u/Vladraconis Jan 26 '23
You : '"Not sure anyone said it was."
The title : "We can torpedo this myth now".
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u/betterwaffle Jan 26 '23
Linux developers have failed to create reliable distros and emulation layers that allow for most games to be playable
... what? linux is a kernel, not an operating system, and it (and any of the mainstream distributions) are far, far more stable than their nt/windows and darwin/macos counterparts, and have far more flexibility in userland if something special was needed for a game.
the issue is that game developers do not spend the time and money on releasing for linux, primarily because of the smaller market share not justifying the investment.
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u/Herlock Jan 26 '23
CCP (EvE Online devs, not the chinese stuff) made a good point about it : they tried to maintain a client that would work on linux distros for quite a while, up until they simply had to stop doing it.
They made the fair point that in the end their eve online linux fans were probably better at getting the game to run on linux than the devs at trying to accommodate the various quirks and driver issues the official client had to deal with.
It's not just "releasing" on linux, you gotta maintain the stuff you sell, and when you start getting tickets for some obscure linux distro you haven't even heard of... that's starting to take some significant work to replicate the issue (let alone fix it).
Only someone like valve can throw enough money at such a problem, and even then they didn't really right ? They made their own distro so that they would have to deal with one single environnement and their own bugs and quirks...
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u/JustEnoughDucks Jan 26 '23
Well that is why literally every dev that supports linux states 1 or 2 supported distros. Usually Ubuntu.
That way they can get it working on linux generally through one of the most popular distros, 90% of linux users are happy, and they can ignore every support request not on Ubuntu, eliminating the need to support anything but one configuration.
It is literally a great compromise because linux users will hack it for other distros and support themselves.
The real reason is that they don't want to put in the effort to develop around a second system that they aren't familiar with and then spend time on support for 1% of their playerbase. Which is also pretty valid.
But let's not lie and say that distro library fragmentation is the reason for all but a select few developers. If there was only one distros in existence that consumers used, but still was only 1% of players, we would be in the exact same situation. The problem is, and always will be money: not pouring development hours into a small fraction of the revenue source.
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u/Sigma-001 i7-6700K@4.8GHz | 6800XT+1070 | 64GB DDR4-3200 | Void + KVM W10 Jan 26 '23
The mistake there is even trying to maintain for all distros
Just providing official support for one popular distro like Ubuntu or such is usually enough, Linux users, especially those on DIY distros like Void or Arch, will happily get it running on other distros as a community effort, just that having any one supported distro makes that a ton easier
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u/Herlock Jan 26 '23
That was a very long time ago, not sure what distro was popular back then or if CCP even tried to support everything. It's a decade+ old memory so I might be missing out on some details.
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u/MuhammedJahleen Jan 26 '23
Does it being a different kernel make it harder for them to add it to linux vs windows ?
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u/PanVidla Ryzen 7 5800X | RTX 3080 Ti | 32 GB RAM @ 3200 MHz Jan 26 '23
All Linux distributions use the same kernel, which is of course fundamentally different from Windows, meaning that if you run a Windows app on Linux, you need to translate the Windows instructions to instructions that Linux understands. Wine does this and has come a long way since the beginning. Most issues nowadays are something like anticheat programs recognizing Wine as a hack and therefore not allowing Linux players on servers.
As for distributions of Linux, while they use the same kernel, they may use different sets of drivers, package managers, they are installed and maintained differently etc. As a Linux user, you can definitely change anything and make it behave like another distro, which means that if a game works on one distro, it can work on all of them. But as a game dev you cannot assume that the user is willing to do the work to configure the distro the way your game needs and to support all distros, you would need to make sure you cover all the different sets of libraries and drivers different distros use. There is too many combinations and changes are happening too quickly for a gamedev to support all distros at once.
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u/Rice7th 10900 | RX 570 8Gb Jan 26 '23
Well, it is already a miracle that windows games work on Linux in the first place, so the only ones to blame are game devs that don't make Linux versions of their games.
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u/Voller_Faulheit Jan 26 '23
Why would they make something for such a small customer base?
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u/Jazqa Linux Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
They wouldn’t… and that’s part of the reason why it’s so small. Less support means less users, which means even less support in the future.
What most people don’t understand is that Windows users benefit from Linux development, because a viable alternative keeps Microsoft’s greed in check.
Most Windows users dislike modern Microsoft and their recent additions to Windows. Without an alternative, Microsoft could be even greedier, because what could the users do?
Part of the reason Valve went with Linux for Steam Machines was Windows App Store – if Microsoft ever tried to get their hands in Valve’s revenue on their platform, they’d have an alternative.
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u/Ursa_Mid 13700k5.4 GHz | 3080 Ti | 64GB 6800 MT/s Jan 26 '23
I'm just amazed that I'm able to run advanced driver features like DLSS and RT at all these days. We've come a LONG way thanks to Proton.
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u/LowDopamineHuman Fedora Linux Jan 26 '23
Idc I just dualboot for the best of both worlds.
Gaming on Windows, and literally everything else on Linux.
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u/TheseEdiblesAintShet Jan 26 '23
Can I play Destiny 2 on it?
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u/NekkoDroid PC Master Race Jan 26 '23
Considering Bungie specifically said they will ban anyone trying to play it on Linux: no
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u/UrbanFsk Jan 26 '23
whats the reasoning behind this?
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Jan 26 '23
Most likely because anti-cheat is easier to bypass on Linux.
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u/pipnina KDE Neon, I7-6700k, GTX1070, beige Microsoft keyboard Jan 26 '23
Not so much that it's easier to bypass, and more that you'd need to develop the anticheat twice and force Linux users to install either kernel modules or a custom kernel to make modern anticheat work. Because they need to interface with the kernel to do their job.
And of course, they don't seem to work very well anyway as games with a to cheats (sometimes more than one) still get people complaining about cheaters...
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u/stupidredditacc6754 Jan 26 '23
the anticheat already exists and works on linux they would just have to implement it
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u/AkabeX86 GNU/Linux & Windows10 Desktop Jan 26 '23
Any form of security shouldn't be on the device anyways... It should be on the server side, other wise it's not called an anti cheat, it's called DRM software.
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Jan 26 '23
There are cheats which cannot be detected on server. But most of the time it is used to save server resources.
More like data miner than DRM. EasyAntiCheat and other software scans your PC for running software and sends that info back home. You have no way of knowing what else it is sending. It does prevent some cheats, but it also exists to steal your data and violate privacy. Some of them install as rootkit and might brick your OS installation, brick full drive encryption (causing you to lose your data), etc.
Also, there were cases of companies mining coins through anti-cheat software.
In my opinion any game that has DRM and/or anti-cheat is anti-consumer and should be avoided.
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u/WillDeletOneDay Jan 26 '23
- They don't trust Linux users
- Their anticheat operates by basically being spyware that Windows will give free reign.
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u/snapphanen R9 390 | i5-3570k @ 4 GHz Jan 26 '23
Short answer, they are lazy.
Long answer, they can't be arsed to develop a platform independent anti-cheat. The game itself runs on linux, but not the anti-cheat. Instead of fixing this, they double down and actively ban linux gamers. It's just easier to ignore the problem than to fix it.
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Jan 26 '23
It costs money and time to do this. They’re not plain lazy. And Linux gaming is still niche enough for them to not give a fk. If steam deck could change these numbers hopefully we’ll see these investments
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u/rolloutTheTrash Ryzen 7 3700X | 80GB DDR4 | RTX 2070s Jan 26 '23
No one’s gonna dedicate task and sprint hours to solve an issue for a small subset of people who can fix it faster by just moving to any other platform (PS, Xbox, Windows)
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u/33957210 R7 5700x, 3070, 16gb DDR4, Windows 11 Jan 26 '23
Not through linux on the steam deck you still need windows for that. The devs have basically said they refuse to support it as well which I find scummy, but that’s just my opinion.
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u/AkabeX86 GNU/Linux & Windows10 Desktop Jan 26 '23
Which is why i refuse to support them, it's as simple as that👍
And no, this is not about politics or some market share thing. i don't care if it affects them, but it does affect me. Its simply, if someone spits in my face, they don't deserve my money.
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u/TheHelplessTurtle Jan 26 '23
Bungie is specifically anti-Linux. They even block Steam Decks running Windows occasionally.
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u/JerbearCuddles
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Gonna be honest with you Linux folks, I usually scroll passed these posts. But I don't give a fuck you game on Linux, don't give a fuck that you enjoy it too. Maybe do us non-Linux people the same courtesy and stop giving a fuck that we're using Windows. Linux people really are the crossfit people of OS.
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u/sorenant R5-1600, GTX1050Ti 4GB, 2x4GB DDR4 Jan 26 '23
I use Arch btw
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u/43eyes i7 8700k - GTX 980ti - 16GB Ram - X2 256GB Samsung 850 Pro Jan 26 '23
Ah so you do CrossFit and you’re a vegan atheist
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u/sorenant R5-1600, GTX1050Ti 4GB, 2x4GB DDR4 Jan 26 '23
I also use Firefox and buy indie games.
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u/Merosian Jan 26 '23
Firefox is way too mainstream, you use Brave.
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u/Rigman- Jan 26 '23
Brave stopped being an interesting browser as soon as it became off-brand crypto chromium.
And if you’re going to use chromium, you’re better off using Edge.
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u/Lumicide R7 1700 3.9@1.36v | 16GB RAM 3000C14 | 1080ti Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
Brave? What, are you some kind of normie? If the website can't be rendered adequately in a terminal, then it's clearly not worth anything. Compile w3m from source, pleb.
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u/Pzixel Jan 26 '23
I hate a lot of friends (mostly devs) that absolutely hate windows and use linux for all tasks (some are gentoo + Nix fans) yet for some reason ones who play games have a dedicated windows laptop each. I wonder if they are just so dumb they can't see that linux is great for gaming (
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u/ThatOnePerson i7-7700k 1080Ti Vive Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
Put me down as one of those. I love the idea of Linux gaming, but yeah it's not 100% there yet. I don't mind having it on my Steam Deck, but Linux is not replacing my main gaming PC's OS.
Off the top of my head, HDR and VR support are both shit. Stuff I don't care about on the Deck, but do on my main PC. There's some recent progress with HDR.
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u/alexnedea Jan 26 '23
General usage and gaming? Windows all day.
Programming and Devops? Linux all day.
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u/IAmHappyAndAwesome Linux Gang (Ryzen 5 3400G, 8GB 2667MHz, 75Hz 24") Jan 26 '23
Not saying I don't agree with your view but it's ironic you're saying this on r/pcmasterrace lol. The entire premise of the sub is "Look, we use PCs because PCs are good!"
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u/JCAPER Steam Deck Master Race Jan 26 '23
People on a circlejerk sub are complaining about circlejerks inside the pc circlejerk lol
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u/IshayuG PC Master Race Jan 26 '23
This community was literally set up to drag console gamers to Windows.
Which is of course why LinuxMasterRace exists now.
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u/combingyourhairyball Jan 26 '23
Oh man, a crossfitter, this makes me reevaluate my life choices.
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u/working-acct Jan 26 '23
Look this is a welcoming community, you can dress however you want nobody ain’t going to judge you here.
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u/ThunderSparkles PCMR: 5800X, 3080Ti, 32GB, 4TB SSD Jan 26 '23
It's not as good. That's just the plain truth. But if you are willing to trade some gaming for being on Linux that is fine.
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u/kruemmelbande Desktop Jan 26 '23
Linux has gotten better, but its still not as good at windows. For example vr is a huge issue. I mean, it works, dont get me wrong, but its simply not plug and play as windows is.
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u/JosephKonyMontana i7 12700K | RX 6800XT | 23GB storage left send help Jan 26 '23
but its still not as good as windows.
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Jan 26 '23
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u/JaesopPop i5-11400 | 6900XT | 32GB 3600 Jan 26 '23
yes steam games work that have no additional launchers.
Hm? Games with launches work.
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u/he77789 i5-12600k 50-36/GTX1060-6G/2x16DDR43800C18 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
Valorant has a kernel level
rootkitanti cheat that only works with windows, so Linux won't work. It also refuses to run in virtual machines.To clarify, I do not mean that the anti cheat itself must be malicious, but one more program running with kernel access is one more attack vector that attackers could use.
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u/JaesopPop i5-11400 | 6900XT | 32GB 3600 Jan 26 '23
I get some folks are really invested in some games but even when I ran Windows I would not be on board with that sorta nonsense.
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u/southpaw650 GTX 1070 Jan 26 '23
Ac odyssey and multiple other games work on my steam deck with zero issues and they have launchers. Also any game that doesnt work well i can just shoot into desktop mode and it runs fine
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u/Kursem_v2 Jan 26 '23
what he meant to say is some anti-cheat software for online games currently doesn't work on steam deck / linux.
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u/Due_Sundae_3379 i5 12400 - 3070ti Jan 26 '23
If gaming is the main use, windows is obviously the much better option
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u/StConvolute Jan 26 '23
This is a cursed thread.
Linux is good. I daily it and support it at work. I also daily windows and support it at work, it's fine, but expensive, but so is Rhel. If Linux was lucrative for games, I guarantee you support for games would get better over night. Much like Rhel is a fantastic enterprise Linux OS if you want to pay.
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u/Grid_Gaming_Ultimate A6 4400M + RTX 3080 Ti Jan 26 '23
yeah wow all it took was a multibillion dollar corporation (don't get me wrong i love valve but this isnt wrong) and several years of work on a linux distro specifically designed only for gaming, not to mention that EVEN THIS left many, many major titles behind in the "not supported" section.
switching exclusively to Linux, even SteamOS, means abandoning a lot of games that refuse to support it, whether it's 3rd party anticheats or simply running on a non-steam launcher. it's not a myth, its a fact.
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u/alienangel2 i9-9900k@4.8GHz|2080 Ti|1440p@144Hz GSync TN, 1440p@144Hz IPS Jan 26 '23
Also, the way it actually gets the vast majority of games to work well on Linux... Is to run then through a compatability layer that makes them think they're running under windows.
I have a Steam Deck and love it, but acting like it's proof that Linux gaming is in a great state is just as silly as the "you can't game on Linux" crowd. You can game fine on Linux, but it's more hassle because you mostly have to trick the games into thinking you're not on Linux.
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u/Shock900 btw I use Arch Jan 26 '23
but it's more hassle because you mostly have to trick the games into thinking you're not on Linux.
I can't really speak for a ton of non-Steam games, but it's not really a hassle in the Steam client. You click "enable Steam Play", and you're done (unless you want to tinker with it).
If the end result is that you're playing the game, I fail to see the problem, and why this would be evidence of gaming being in a poor state on Linux.
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u/smjsmok Linux Jan 26 '23
can't really speak for a ton of non-Steam games
You do the same things as in Steam, but in Lutris. That's it basically. Lutris also runs Proton, so it's pretty much the same thing for non-Steam games. Or you can run non-Steam games in Steam too, if you wish (and use Proton to do it).
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u/bwanr Jan 26 '23
Idk if you use Linux for gaming, but Lutris has a lot more steps for many of the games. For League of Legends, for example, you must follow an entire guide on how to setup the proper wine prefix and where to get the proper installer. Then there is an entire guide on how to configure the Lutris settings to get LoL to "kinda sorta work with a performance kinda somewhat similar to windows". Once this is done, there is a guide on how to disable broken features that won't work with wine as well as how to enable low performance mode to reduce issues when using Linux (even if your PC is fast). Having done all this, you may decide that you want to have your game activity pop up on Discord. Luckily, there is a github page with a third party app that gets updated once every blue moon which reportedly allows you to get this basic feature. You only require about half a dozen commands on the CLI to get it ready and once you do, it doesn't work.
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u/pipnina KDE Neon, I7-6700k, GTX1070, beige Microsoft keyboard Jan 26 '23
I don't see why the need for a comparability layer is a bad thing, if the Devs of the game won't support it themselves, but this program translates windows calls to Vulkan and X window commands to make it run, it's basically the same as porting it but live on your machine.
The program is fed the info it expects, but the translation is not resource intensive, performance loss can be bad in some graphical situations as graphical translation and optimisation is a very complex topic, but most games run between 100% and 80% of the speed they do on windows without affecting CPU load in any noticeable way.
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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jan 26 '23
you may be misunderstanding the "unsupported" listing on games via steam. It doesnt mean they wont work, it just means it didnt pass valves test for one reason or another and that testing metric is specifically for the steam deck so if things such as small text, or unsupported resolution are reasons it didnt pass, it may get an unsupported mark but that doesnt mean it wont work on deck or any linux distro perfectly fine.
most games do just work regardless of the verification.
but yeah, it took support to get these games to work, it took microsoft decades to make and work on all of their game support stuff too, its not exactly a demerit for the system.
the biggest issue is just the lack of support from game devs/publishers. so many games that are even on the "hosed cuz anti-cheat" list can actually be rendered, they're just soft locked from anti-cheat cuz publishers dont want to get it to work. and some devs/publishers did update their anti-cheat to work, so its not like its impossible, hell even microsoft is still working with valve to get their anti-cheat for MCC working (though im not sure whats taken it so long cuz Apex had it working like day one of the steam deck release)
but yes, switching exclusively to Linux would be something you'd have to do because you dont want windows any more. If you dont actually care what OS you use, then stay with windows. However Linux being as viable as it is now is a good thing, it means we have options, it means you dont absolutely have to pick windows as an OS and you'll still have access to most of your games.
you may appreciate the option more when you get older. I dont play many multiplayer games any more, anti-cheat doesnt concern me a whole lot cuz i dont have any one to play with. single player games are the majority of what I play now and most single player games I've tried to play via linux just run with out any issues now, i cant even think off the top of my head the last single player game I tried to play that didnt work.
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u/TheFel0x PC Master Race Jan 26 '23
Not sure what the controversy about the Linux stuff is supposed to be about. Easy rule usually is:
"I want to play video games, should I install Linux?" - no. why would you
"I want to use Linux, can I play video games?" - yes. but sometimes no
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u/Aced_By_Chasey Ryzen 5 3600x | 32 GB | RTX 2080 FTW3 Jan 26 '23
I really tire of seeing linux good post on this sub sometimes. I srsly don't give a shit. Be a Mac gamer for all I care.
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u/Mars_Bear2552 10600K, 2080S, 16GB Ripjaws V, MSI B560M-A Pro, WD SN750 Jan 26 '23
Have fun Mac gaming (OpenGL deprecated sadge)
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u/hesapmakinesi Glorious Manjaro Jan 26 '23
Mac was a great platform for gaming circa 1994-1996.
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u/shnurr214 Jan 26 '23
Is this a thing people believe? Why would anyone think a different more open source OS is bad for gaming?
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u/Last_Jedi 5800X3D, RTX 4090 Trio Jan 26 '23
I got my first HDR TV in 2018.
It's been 5 years and Linux HDR support is nowhere in sight. Meanwhile Windows can even convert SDR games to HDR.
So yeah, I think I'll stick with Windows.
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u/Catch_022 5600, 3080FE, 1080p go brrrrr Jan 26 '23
I am willing to try linux but it has to be just as good for gaming as windows.
That means my nvidia graphics card and AMD cpu drivers must be updated and working properly, and every game that I run from steam, epic, etc. must run without me having to jump through hoops.
Is the above possible, or are we not there yet?
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u/stappernn Jan 26 '23
Linux will never be exactly like Windows so you can stop waiting around.
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u/Pheeshfud Jan 26 '23
Most of my steam library claims to run with the only "hoop" being having to change the proton version sometimes. There are some games that flat out don't run, but not any I'll actually miss.
Plug your library in here and check your games https://www.protondb.com/dashboard
I go for the proton medals, platinum is runs native, gold is (usually) "change proton version", silver is minor issues, bronze is major issues.
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u/finn-the-rabbit Ryzen 1600 | 32GB DDR4-3200 | GTX 1060 6GB Jan 26 '23
nvidia graphics card and AMD cpu drivers must be updated and working properly
That shit worked 10 yrs ago
> every game that I run from steam, epic
A lot of steam games, popular ones work well, some better than Windows, some worse, some require fixes, some just doesn't work. You can check the support status of the game you want on ProtonDB | Gaming know-how from the Linux and Steam Deck community
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u/Haiziex RTX 3070, 9700k Jan 26 '23
So yeah, not every game. For example mw2 doesn't work, which is quite a massive game. I'm gonna be honest, I don't really want to use an os where I have to hope the games I'm looking forward to will be supported.
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u/Master_Matthew Linux Jan 26 '23
Linux can run any game. The only games that don't work are designed not to.
Anti-Cheat is a kernel level spyware that only works if you are on windows or, enable proton as a developer.
And IMO, anti-cheat is inferior to community ran servers + community moderation.
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It... Isn't though....
If all I did was game and I didn't use my computer for anything else I'd just use Windows.
But I use my computer for everything and it's still...kinda cool that I can game on Linux so I still do it...
Almost every game I've played thus far has performed better on windows. The only exception was Hollow Knight which is like.....that would have worked well on anything.
Don't get me wrong it's getting there. But that doesn't mean it IS there.
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u/AdrianWerner Jan 26 '23
It's still not as good for gaming as Windows though. No matter how many memes Linux fans create :)
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u/kittenzrulz123 Arch | KDE | 3050 ti | Ryzen 5 5600H Jan 26 '23
It doesn't need to be as good as Windows for gaming. As long as people want privacy and customizability there will be Linux users.
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u/HeavyCl0cker Jan 26 '23
I wont argue for 'It is not good', It is just not practical for mainstream.
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u/Different_Host6527 Jan 26 '23
It's been a long long road to this point and I'm very happy for the Steam Deck.
That being said it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the Steam deck erases the decades of pain Linux gamers experienced. This is a post made by an extreme Linux fanboy or someone who literally had never used Linux before the Steam deck.
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u/XDM_Inc Arch Linux | RTX 3090 Ti LC | 64gb Ram | Ryzen 5950x Jan 26 '23
Im just glad that through the power of the steam deck people are having exposure to linux rather they like it or not. this will bring us more support towards linux.
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u/bongjutsu Jan 26 '23
The comment section here baffles me, people will upvote posts about windows crashing and doing inconvenient updates, upvote on threads where people declare they like a game, but when Linux is mentioned people lose their minds and ooze vitriol. It happens in a lot of Linux conversations too, shouldn't we all be celebrating the options we get through PCMR membership?
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u/TakeyaSaito 11700k (5.1GHz all cores)/RTX2080Ti/32GB Ram (3000mhz)/Open Loop Jan 26 '23
Linux is getting there, not everything can be done, yet. But it's definitely getting closer.
I could run Linux exclusively currently as my main game right now is ffxiv and that works great. However I also understand not everything does.