r/relationship_advice Oct 05 '21 Silver 2 Hugz 7

UPDATE: I(29M)can't seem to forgive my Sister(26F) after she completely bailed on me when I was on the brink of being homeless

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1.1k Upvotes

u/R_Amods Oct 06 '21

This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.


So I had a huge amount of people inquiring as to what ended up happening and asking me to make an Update should anything happen and while I wasn't sure if I would or even should I eventually decided to just go ahead and do it.

Let me start by apologizing to the people who commented on my post. I made my post and it didn't seem to gain much traction at all so I more or less stopped looking at it for about a day I think only to figure out the next day that I had gotten a lot of comments. Unfortunately when I decided to reply to a lot of the comments I had been reading I realized that this Subreddit locks the comments after a certain amount of comments have been made or Karma has been reached, I am afraid I was not aware of this admittedly very odd rule so that's on me. I did end up reading most comments and would like to thank everyone offering advice or just saying something supportive.

First to answer a couple of questions that I was unable to answer along with addressing some incorrect comments in the previous post yet I saw asked quite a few times.

1: The first few No's were without reasonable explanation, I was not aware of her given reason that her Husband was not okay with it until later.

2: She did not know she was pregnant when she declined and most of it happened before she would have even been pregnant in the first place. I mean most of this took place over a year ago, I even put that in the post so I am not sure how that Math would even work.

3: I am not an Anti-Vaxxer or Dirty or something, there were quite a few comments that theorized this would be the case for her refusal, I got my 2 vaccination shots the moment I could them and well while my personal hygiene is not exactly anyone's business I shower once a day and my apartment is spotless.

4: A lot of advice and comments seemed to be from the perspective of functional families with a functional family structure, that is not the case here, the primary reason I am so gutted about this entire situation is exactly that, this isn't a case of "Well I don't want my Cousin to stay in my house he can stay somewhere else." This is a case of me having sacrificed my entire youth and a significant portion of my early adult life for someone that I played no part in creating or have any parental responsibility for and the first and only time I ever asked her to do something for me as the only person I could reasonable fall back on and her not doing that, that's more then a familial spat, that is a straight up betrayal. That's also an answer to the people saying that she "Owes" me nothing because I "Chose" to be a "Parent".

Anyway, with that out of the way.

I decided to follow some advice given by several people.

I told my girlfriend and the friends who involved themselves or were involved by my sister to back off or to lose my number, they do not understand my perspective and they likely never will and I need to get that through my head as I have a tendency to talk about my life as if it is a standard, but it is a standard only to me, luckily most people don't go through any of that.(I Obviously had a longer and face to face conversation with my GF and with individual close friends but it boils down to that.) One friend kept pestering me about it and I ended up dropping him as a friend but my GF was apologetic and most friends were either apologetic or said they'd drop it.

I ended up writing a long E-mail to my sister and while I will not copy and paste the entire thing here as it contains a lot of personal information and far more horrible stuff that I am unsure will even be allowed on a sub like this it more or less boiled down to me explaining to her how her refusal to take me in for what ended up being a few weeks made me feel and I detailed a long list of things I had done to take care of her.

I ended up finishing my E-mail telling her that even if I take her version of the story as truth and her husband is the cause of me not being allowed to stay that it is entirely irrelevant to me, because that just means she didn't fight for me at all. I also informed her I have no interest in meeting her child as of this moment and I have no interest in reconnecting with her and if that changes in the future I will be the one to contact her, I told her to let this be a lesson to her as it has been a painful lesson to me.

Boiled down I have decided to move on and keep the door on the tiniest of cracks. She has responded a lot since that moment, she seems unable to accept it, but I have not responded since.

I don't have anything else to tell you I am afraid and since the sub only allows one update well it is what it is, again thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post and thank you all for your insightful replies.

475

u/LearnsFromExperience Oct 05 '21

I'm one of the original commenters. You did what I'd have done in that situation. She turned her back on you the one time she could've shined and showed you how much she appreciated what you did for her, that she had your back, as you've had hers. Her actions (or lack thereof) said everything there was to say. I don't have any more comments, other than good luck and godspeed!

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u/Master_Of_Hearts Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

Yep. Nobody needs fairweather family and fairweather friends who would throw you to the wolves and wilderness the moment it inconveniences them. It's not hard to have a little empathy and let someone you know and trust sleep on your couch when they have nowhere to go. It costs very little to do that.

Good luck OP. Stay strong.

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u/DecimatedAnus Oct 06 '21

It's costs very little to do that.

Some might even say it costs literally nothing.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

I remember this post and how you handled it is exactly how I believe I mentioned. Good on you for setting boundaries, good on you with being clear of what you will or wont accept, good on you for being clear about your feelings to your sister. You are right, even if you accept "its my husband's fault", it still means she did not push back at all. I said this in my last comment but she is only contacting because it was convenient to her.

If she is still contacting by phone block her. If she is still emailing, send the emails to a folder so they bypass your inbox. Best of luck OP

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u/meifahs_musungs Oct 06 '21

" husband fault" - if that were me I would have been calling in favours from all my friends to get money and food to my brother. Like OP said sister did NOTHING. I have found housing and resources for people when I could not provide. Sister did not even try. That is the betrayal.

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u/textilefaery Oct 06 '21

This one of the few times in a marriage you inform your spouse what is happening, not ask. Thankfully my spouse would be already washing the guest room sheets before I even had to ask

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21

Oh for sure. I don’t buy the excuse at all

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u/ryancarton Oct 05 '21

So sad. Good on OP for doing everything he had to do. The only possibly redeemable situation I can see happening from the sister is that it’s an abusive relationship where she doesn’t have much of a say in anything at the house and was too scared to fight for her brother. Oh well. Only time will tell what will happen between them now.

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u/attentionspanissues Oct 06 '21

I agree with blocking the phone and setting up an email folder with setting a rule that all her emails go straight into it. If she ends up sending baby photos and life updates and OP decides to look through this, the option is still open but the emails won't be seen unless he wants to see them.

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u/mini_souffle Oct 05 '21

Wow. I totally get why you would feel not only betrayed but also extremely hurt. I think it is crazy that people would sum it up to your sister doesn't owe you anything. You expect your sibling to be there for you. Period.

My advice is to seek therapy to help you get over the things that happened in the past. You are a traumatized person and you need to navigate your feelings and should do it with a professional. That is if you haven't already.

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u/Artishockers Oct 05 '21

Had the situation been different I might imagine I would have reacted differently, but since the situation is what it is I guess I do more or less feel like she "owes" me to an extent, but as I said you got to view that in the whole picture, I did not owe her so much of my life and energy either but I still did it, that's how she should have been towards me.

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u/brainybrink Oct 05 '21

I also think the flip side of it for me is that, if I were her spouse I wouldn’t imagine turning you away knowing everything you did for the person I married. No kind or honorable person does that. The minimum they owed you was decency and they failed even at that. I’m so sorry. I can only imagine how painful it is, but you did the right thing.

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u/DecimatedAnus Oct 06 '21

She absolutely owes you; it’s not that she has a debt to repay, but she owes you the same loyalty that you showed her - and letting someone crash on your couch for a few weeks barely even counts as a favor when compared to sacrificing years of your life to work your ass off and parent her.

I’ll be more blunt than anyone else; your sister is sheer scum.

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u/KittyConfetti Oct 06 '21

She might not "owe" you anything just as you didn't technically owe her anything, but after all the sacrifices you made for her, the knowledge that she didn't WANT to help you would be like a slap in the face. I'm with you on this, and I'm sorry she let you down.

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u/The_Red_Coder Oct 06 '21

also u/Artishockers btw you can post many updates. i know a post with 5!!

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u/Artishockers Oct 06 '21

No you can't

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u/The_Red_Coder Oct 06 '21

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u/The_Red_Coder Oct 06 '21

if i search there are more but this one should work

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u/lil_zaku Oct 05 '21

That's ironic. To minimize the situation into "You expect your sibling to be there for you. Period." is just as crazy as the people saying his sister doesn't owe him anything.

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u/ryancarton Oct 05 '21

Flat “no”s are a lot worse than trying to help your family out at all lol. But yeah people get a little too black and white when they get mad.

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u/HeadBonk Oct 05 '21

Curious what her husband was saying when he reached out…was he backing up her story that it was her decision?

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u/BlacksmithMotor2580 Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

Yeah, somethings fishy their. I think he’s just going along with it in hopes of painting his wife in a better light.

In which case, it’s ironic that the husband, unlike the sister, is willing to eat sh*t for the people he loves.

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u/shadoxalon Oct 05 '21

She has responded a lot since that moment, she seems unable to accept it, but I have not responded since.

Your sister is under some sort of delusion that the results of her actions should have no bearing on how you feel about her, because she never "wanted you to get hurt ". Maybe she didn't wish you ill, but she sure as shit didn't care if ill befell you. She is viewing personal apathy towards your plight as exculpatory for any downstream results of her apathy, whereas you are unfortunately getting to see her for who she is.

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u/Blade_982 Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

As the oldest daughter of an immigrant family I did and do a lot for my siblings. It's not a role I particularly wanted but I have learned to not resent it and have implemented boundaries as I've grown older.

I would be absolutely crushed if I was ever in your position because it would be a betrayal of my love. I don't want my siblings to pay me back, I don't want special treatment, I don't make unreasonable requests or encroach on their lives...but if I had nowhere to turn, I would want them to support me as I did them.

And they would and have.

All that to say, I understand how you feel. Thank you for the update.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

As I said on your original post, there is no justification for what she did. It is when you're in the shit that your REAL family and friends reveal themselves: your sister failed that test.

I'm glad you've taken the action you have for YOU, and I'm also glad that your partner and friends appear largely to respect your boundary re. this.

You should only think about reconciliation when and only when you're ready and you know exactly what terms you want to be on. All the best.

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u/caramilkninja Oct 05 '21

There's a lot of forgiveness and understanding being advocated for in this thread. I'm more of pay the price or hold people accountable type of person; your post was, from my perspective, entirely justifiable and in the right.

I hope cold satisfaction is as comforting for you as it was for me.

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u/DecimatedAnus Oct 06 '21

The people calling for forgiveness and understanding are almost certainly users and abusers themselves. All they see in this story is her loss - they don’t care about OP, because he’s the one being used.

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u/ChippyTick Oct 05 '21

Ah I remember you, I commented in that thread too.

What I wonder is if she ever actually acknowledged how much you did for her, the knee-jerk responses from your “friends” and gf about how you should forgive her makes it seem like they barely knew or cared about the kind of turbulent life you two had to grow up in. It’s not their business to know everything, but if I knew a friend had a horrible upbringing I wouldn’t fucking get on their case about it because there’s an entire life of theirs I wouldn’t know.

What they likely heard from her is big brother cut her off and she’s in hysterics, not big brother cut her off because she couldn’t recognize that she should have helped the person who sacrificed part of their life to raise her in their time of need. Has she ever expressed any gratitude towards you, in genuine sincerity for helping her build a life and have a future without the struggles you knew?

In any case, I’m in full support of your decision.

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u/homie_down Oct 05 '21

Man, I'm someone that really isn't fond of my own sister, and even I can't imagine doing to her what she did to you. ESPECIALLY given all that you sacrificed for her. Like that's some next level cruelty that's pretty damn unforgiveable. I think you made the right call, and should probably just block her via email too just for your own sake so you can properly move on and close that chapter of your life. Everyone likes to say family this family that as an excuse to justify people doing horrible things to each other without consequence, but family bonds are earned and not given, and when it mattered most your sister showed you what your bond meant to her. Best of luck moving forward, and I'm hoping that your friends & gf actually took your side and aren't just placating to give you the same shpiel later on.

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u/the_last_basselope Oct 05 '21

The fact she's still pestering you despite you clearly telling her that you don't want that says a lot about who she is as a person, and what it says is that she's selfish and entitled and only cares about herself and what she wants in which case you are better off never re-establishing contact because she would only use that opening to try to get something from you.

If you haven't blocked her everywhere already, do so. If she shows up in person ever again give her one warning that if she doesn't leave, or if she comes back, you will call the police and have her officially trespassed from your property and will be pursuing a restraining order against her because she is harassing you.

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u/Artishockers Oct 05 '21

I wouldn't necessarily view her as a person who just wants stuff from others, it would be an unfair characterization. Per example a lot of people were saying she probably just wants free babysitting which I really doubt in general.

That said, she is blocked pretty much everywhere apart for on my personal mail which is what I refer to as the tiny opening, unfortunately thats what she is using to bombard me with mails so I may end up blocking her there too.

If it was unclear however, I am certainly not thinking of re-establishing anything anytime soon(Talking years here)

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u/Cleantech2020 Oct 05 '21

don't block her, just set for her emails to skip the inbox and go straight to archive. that way you never have to see those emails.

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u/Karyatids Oct 06 '21

What was her response to you laying everything out there? Just curious

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u/LaSorbun Oct 06 '21

I think you have given her the gift of consequences for her actions. It's the ultimate teacher. Hopefully, she will learn valuable lessons from this. The world is better when people consider the unintended consequences for their actions.

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u/chicharrones_yum Oct 05 '21

Keep her blocked. She’s an AH. After everything you did for her she didn’t help you when you needed it. She only cares about herself.

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u/Unique-Yam Oct 06 '21

She’s not going to stop bombarding you. Perhaps it’s time to block her everywhere. She won’t accept that the relationship she had with you is over.

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u/DecimatedAnus Oct 06 '21

I wouldn't necessarily view her as a person who just wants stuff from others, it would be an unfair characterization.

Got any examples of her giving back? I’m guessing you don’t.

You went to her with one problem, and she basically shooed you away. You might want to defend her, but it seems kind of telling that you can’t defend her by mentioning any redeeming actions.

You doubt she wants a babysitter. You’re right; she might want you to play daddy again, instead.

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u/clumplings2 Oct 06 '21

She made a huge mistake and she realizes it. My only concern is that you might be losing your only family at this point. From what you describe, if this was a one off behavior from her, this could be worked out.

Give her a way to make it up to you. Maybe she she took you for granted.

-44

u/EclecticVictuals Oct 05 '21

There are so many people here who think like it’s only about what they can get in that’s why they show up. It’s the cynicism which is sometimes valid but not as often as it is suggested.

The reality is that she knows she fucked up, she’s panicking, she didn’t think through her decision, and now she doesn’t know how to deal with the reality that your relationship is damaged to a very very large extent.

Being calm and respecting boundaries is a more mature response, and she is hormonal and thinking about things in an entirely different way, too late to make a difference to you.

Because you’ve always been there for her, I’m sure patient and loving and supportive and forgiving, it never entered her consciousness that she could be in the situation and she has no other tools because you will not, for valid reasons of your own, entertain her attempts to apologize or repair.

As I said above, I respect your decision, although I would not hold this against her as much, if you do not want contact and she won’t respect it she is leaving you with no choice.

If there’s part of you that still cares about her even if the relationship is on hiatus indefinitely, perhaps follow my suggestion above and have somebody reach out to explain the clock starts when she respects the boundary.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

-26

u/EclecticVictuals Oct 05 '21

I get it, but part of my comment is following a conversation we were having above. I specifically deny people who claim that no one owes anyone and I spend a lot of time validating his feelings and how terrible what she did was particularly in light of their previous circumstances.

It's just a pretty deep wound and the fact that he’s cutting her off does not alter that. I’m just very sorry for him and for the whole situation. It was so unnecessary.

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u/eskimokiss88 Oct 05 '21

I agree it is inappropriate for her to keep contacting him if he has told her not to. But it could just be that she is young and dumb, not necessarily that she's an inherently evil person. I can see 20 something me not hearing the 'no' whereas the older me would absolutely hear it.

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u/Jigen-isshin Oct 05 '21

I like how when it comes to your decisions, you are assertive and strict. That shows on how your friends and GF are not willing to overstep their boundaries. Your sister made her decision, now she’s facing the consequences.

Based on your last post, either she knows she messed up or doesn’t want to take responsibility for it. Making excuses just validates she doesn’t want to own up to her mistakes. I hope you can start healing probably through therapy. Maybe someday you can find in yourself to forgive her.

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u/Minute_Box3852 Oct 06 '21

I have a feeling her husband is feeling just as serious consequences for his involvement now. Hopefully.

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u/elephant-memorie Oct 06 '21

It's shocking that your sister could be so callous as to not offer a couch for a few weeks after the sacrifices you made for her starting at age 13, literally becoming her parent. I understand your choice to remain NC for now. I (57F) became the parent of my newborn baby brother at the age of 12 since my mom had PPD and broke up with her fiancée as he cheated on her. I'm thankful that my brother, now 45, is one of my best friends. If I ever needed him and he rejected me with no explanation, I would cut him off. I'm sorry you had to go through this with your sister and I wish you the best going forward.

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u/Toadie9622 Oct 06 '21

OP, I’m keeping a good thought for you. I hope things only get better for you from here on out. You are a strong and decent person, and you deserve that.

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u/Mindtaker Oct 05 '21

Can't wait for the day you finally close that door and start moving forward only without looking back. Best of luck to you.

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u/BojacksHorseman Oct 05 '21

If you get the chance I would really like to understand, what was the period of time between her saying no to you in your most desperate hour and then reaching out to you?

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u/willfully_hopeful Oct 06 '21

Completely understandable. All these people creating hypothetical “what if” situations can go fuck off. What she did was not okay. I wouldn’t forgive her either and I think the you handled this well.

Given the context of your relationship and who you are a couch or guest bedroom for few weeks/months is the least she could do.

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u/No_Fee_161 Oct 05 '21

Good on you for standing your ground! Hoping things will get better for you

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u/zinoozy Oct 05 '21

I am gutted for you. Not that she "owes" you anything but more you would think she would have the same love and care for you as you did for her during your time of need. My older sister did a lot for me when I was younger and I was too immature to really appreciate it until I was much older and settled down. Maybe because you took such good care of her she took it for granted and is now having a hard time accepting the reality of her actions. I hope you do keep that door a crack open for a possible reconciliation in the future. As a younger sister myself I was stupid and selfish in my younger years. My older sister took great care of me and perhaps that stunted my growth into adulthood. I now fully understand what she did for me and I'm always so grateful for it. I hope in time your can forgive her.

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u/dystopianpirate Oct 05 '21

The sister owes him, I believe there's something in life and relationships called gratitude and reciprocity, there are many siblings when raised in dysfunctional families that wouldn't help their younger siblings, and just look out for themselves. Others help out out of love and compassion, but there's how a person is raised, and then how a person is. You're right, I think the sister took his help for granted, but my take is that she's a very selfish person that learnt absolutely nothing about her upbringing.

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u/Competitive_Rip6498 Oct 06 '21

Way to go OP! You definitely made the right call. I saw the original post but comments were locked before I could say anything. My Mom was in a similar situation when I was 3, her brother fell on hard times and needed a place to stay. She didn’t hesitate to offer our basement to him for a while. My dad was NOT happy about it, but she fought for him. He stayed longer than he should have but he eventually got back on his feet. She never owed him anything, she took him in because she loved and cared about him. They had a great relationship up until she the day she passed away.

I’m truly sorry for you and your sister, she has irreparably burned that bridge. The loss of that relationship is a shame, because siblings should always have each other’s back, and she basically stuck a knife in yours. Forgiveness is a privilege, and you don’t have to give her that gift. I wouldn’t done the exact same thing if I was ever in your position, and I wish you the best of luck with all your future endeavours OP

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u/Elsacoldqueen Oct 06 '21

You did a lot for her, and she did not do the same. I am sorry,.. I hope cutting off your sister and the toxic people will help you heal.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21

I'm on your side. This cuts deep. It's not something a simple "sorry" will fix. It helps but it is a bandadge on a deep and bleeding wound.

Maybe someday you'll forgive her....or maybe you won't. Just focus on healing.

Sorry OP

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u/slab3 Oct 06 '21

damn son

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u/brendamrl Oct 06 '21

You did what you had to do. I’m sending you a lot of hugs.

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u/JollyFawn90 Oct 06 '21

This absolutely breaks my heart. It is a true betrayal and I’m so sorry this happened to you. 100% support your response, she really left you no choice,

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u/the_sociopaths_dghtr Oct 06 '21

Hugs and I deeply understand your feelings. Maybe with time the sting of betrayal will go away and maybe it won’t, but I’m glad she and her husband also know exactly how they hurt you. Hopefully your girlfriend and friends back off and let you handle it the way you want. Best of luck!

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

You are amazing OP.

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u/Cleantech2020 Oct 05 '21

You have done the right thing. Often younger siblings who have caring older siblings don't reciprocate the care and love they have been given, mostly because it has never been asked of them before and they are also selfish. Sorry your sister is one of those people.

What you have done is the best way forward. Your sister essentially wasn't there for you in a time of need, and you feel betrayed, which is totally valid. Moving on and going low/no contact is the best way forward.

Best of luck!

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u/EclecticVictuals Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

I’m really sorry that this happened. I understand what it’s like to be a giver and not be able to count on people when you need them.

I would be interested if you ever sit down with your sister to find out exactly what was going through her mind. It’s always interesting to me how she’s thinking now versus what she was thinking then.

And it could be that she’s a passive person who has always been either taken care of or a victim, And all she needed was her husband's disapproval to make her feel insecure enough not to understand how important it was that she be there for you.

I am most of the time advocating for forgiveness, for the benefit of the giver as well as the receiver. But I always acknowledge that forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting, and a true apology involves taking full responsibility, showing true remorse, and a willingness to patiently mend the damage caused.

I’m glad that you were able to work this out with your girlfriend, I’m sure she only had the best of intentions. My heart breaks for your sister, and for you. You survived and were injured deeply and now she is left with the consequences of her actions and no way to fix them.

If it were me, I would listen if you have not done so already to fully understand and have her express her understanding of how you feel and why.

But your approach is your approach and it is perfectly valid, what happened was no small thing and in the context of your life was a terrible betrayal. I guess I would ask her “if our situations were reversed can you imagine me doing what you did, and how would you feel had I done so?."

What you are saying is, it doesn’t matter because there’s no reason or thought process good enough and it is beyond redemption for the time being.

Given your bond I think eventually you will have some manner of connection with your sister, but for now this is what you have to do and she needs to respect that. Her efforts do show sincerity even if they are violating the boundaries you have set.

I want to be harder on her, these are the consequences, I’m happy that you survived and that you figured out how to get your life back on track, and I have sadness for both of you and respect for your need to keep her in the category in which she put herself. ❤️

ETA: I constantly rail against the crowd on this forum who claim “you don’t owe anyone anything,” or "no one owes anyone anything." that’s narcissistic echo chamber bullshit from people who probably wouldn’t lift a finger to help another human being no matter what. Certainly family helps family especially with the bond, we should all expect more of ourselves, and if no one owes anyone anything under that theory this is how your sister ended up estranged from you because you don’t know her anything either. But I think my post speaks more to my state of mind, I just can’t stand these idiots who want to harass a poster and invalidate them.

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u/dystopianpirate Oct 05 '21

You don't owe anyone anything is the mentality of selfish, ungrateful leeches, they want to take from you, but won't reciprocate.

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u/Artishockers Oct 05 '21

That's another part of the puzzle here, I do feel like seeing her in person and talking to her is essentially relenting to her consistent attempts to contact me which is something I really do not want to do for 2 reasons.

1: It sets a precedent in terms that enough consistent contacting, bothering and stalking will force me to forgive her.

2: I simply don't feel like she deserves to be forgiven at least not yet and an in person talk may mean I am swayed to forgive her which sets another precedent.

At this point however, she shouldn't have to worry about whether I would have done the same, it is an irrelevant question now, if right now she got to my door and had nowhere else to go I'd probably answer with a simple "No"

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21

I suppose at some point you could send a cease and desist letter.

-29

u/EclecticVictuals Oct 05 '21

I am truly sorry for your pain.

I know it’s deep and raw.

I usually try to reason my way through these types of things to get to a better place. I do recommend that you see a therapist because your life has not been easy and I feel like she was a cornerstone and that has been dislodged, and I wonder if you just feel unmoored.

Angry, yes, but more like deeply disappointed and hurt. I would cry if you need to or acknowledge this.

I see your point though with her not respecting your boundaries, now it seems like a negotiation that you have not agreed to enter into.

So if that’s the case in the spirit of hope and potential future reconciliation I would tell her, or have somebody like your girlfriend tell her “I understand that you are trying to make amends. But there is no amends to be made here, that would’ve been when I/he needed a place to stay so he wouldn’t be out on the street."

“If you truly want reconciliation, it needs to start with a realization that your relationship was deeply damaged by your decision and actions. And it isn’t good enough to come after and say "I'm sorry.""

“Now all you can do is wait and hope, if you truly do want reconciliation, and respect the boundaries that have been laid out. The clock doesn’t start until the boundaries are honored. if you are sincere, you will do this. It won’t be easy, but it wasn’t easy for me either now or back then."

Eventually, maybe you can find out, I guess I’m just curious because thinking through it it doesn’t make any sense to me either.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

OP Forgiveness can’t be rushed, you feel it in your heart when you are ready to forgive someone, no one can tell you to forgive her but yourself.

If you do follow what people say, and let her into your life before you are ready, you will only resent her and begin to resent all aspects of your life.

But there will come a time where you have to forgive her, not for her but for yourself, cause you can’t carry that forever, just let it be your choice when that happens, no one else’s. (Also forgiving someone doesn’t mean you have to let them back into your life completely, when it comes to that point decide what your boundaries are with her and her partner for the future)

Good on you for the email, very level headed

5

u/InSight89 Oct 06 '21

I'm curious to know what the husbands reasons were?

If my wife asked me if a family member of hers could stay with us I'd probably refuse due to comfort reasons (I'm not particularly fond of her family) but she'd fight me for it and get her way regardless as I don't really have any strong reasons for a complete refusal. Relationships are all about compromises after all so I'd suck it up.

Makes me wonder what the husbands reasons were or if your sister just didn't bother to fight for it?

Given her persistence to still be part of your life I wonder if she put in that much effort when it came to arguing on your behalf to her husband? If so, then perhaps she deserves some respect.

But then it still makes me wonder what the husbands reasons were in that case. If it was just a "no" because "its my decision" and no other valid reason then I'd question why your sister is even with such a man who has no respect for her family and herself.

-25

u/AlarmingTurnover Oct 06 '21

I read the original message and I read this update. I understand that OP is mad and why they are mad. And they don't need to communicate with the sister if they don't want to. That's within their right.

This said, the sister doesn't owe him anything. This is a hill I'm willing to die on. And the husband doesn't need a reason to say no. No is a complete answer. It's his home too and he has every right to have that space for himself.

I hate your argument because this isn't a compromise situation. This is a 2 yes situation, there is no "my reason is not good enough so she wins". That's bullshit and honestly, if someone came here and asked for advice about that, I would tell them to grow a spine and stop being stepped on.

If my wife doesn't want people over, we don't have people over. If I don't want people over, we don't have people over. Compromise isn't forcing someone to suffer through something because of your decisions.

I have sympathy for OP. And I refuse to blame the sister. As mad as he is, she was still a kid at the time and didn't ask for this either. My siblings had a chance to save me from drug addiction and homelessness when I was in college and they didn't do a damn thing. I'm bitter about it but my problems are my problems, not theirs.

16

u/InSight89 Oct 06 '21

Compromise isn't forcing someone to suffer through something because of your decisions.

Have a look at the end results. The sister is now "suffering". Was it really worth it? Doesn't seem so considering she's been desperately trying to regain a connection to her brother and even the husband has been apologetic.

I don't disagree with you when you say "no" doesn't need a reason. But having no reason really shows a lack of respect and sympathy.

15

u/BlacksmithMotor2580 Oct 06 '21

If she didn’t owe him anything, why does he owe her forgiveness/a relationship?

6

u/lamamaloca 40s Female Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

Compromise is sometimes saying "I don't want people over, but this is important to my spouse, so I'll push to give here, and I know she'll do the same for me some other time."

4

u/techsinger Oct 05 '21

It sounds like you're in a much better place, although without your sister. Hopefully she realizes how she betrayed you and regrets it. Nobody can blame you for not wanting to talk to her any time soon, if ever again. I hope you'll keep that tiny crack open because life can throw so many surprises, and you just don't know where you will be 10-20 years from now. That may seem like a long time from now, but trust me, it will fly like the wind! Be well, be safe, and be happy!

2

u/JustMissKacey Oct 06 '21

Being a parent is often a thankless cruel experience. The difference between you and your sister is that you saw her has a sibling, a duo, even if she wasn’t sharing the burden she was on the same road as you. To her you were a parent. Parents don’t always get appreciation for what they’ve sacrificed and done.

The difference in your perspectives explains the difference in reaction and I am so sorry that you had to experience any of it. If she keeps contacting you I’d suggest changing your number / emails to silence the noise until you’re comfortable.

Good luck op

2

u/Suspicious_Chair_959 Oct 05 '21

Like you say, I think a lot of people weren’t empathetic with your situation because they were too fixed on their own life experiences and personal narratives. Your sister absolutely did owe it to you to avoid being homeless, it was the least she could do. She has no loyalty. This actually reminds me a lot of cheating posts. Now that there are consequences raining down on her, she’s suddenly sorry. But when she was hurting you, it really didn’t bother her, she didn’t give it a whole lot of thought.

I can’t help but suspect she will want more help from you in the future People often end up repeating a lot of the same mistakes their parents made, and she doesn’t seem to be a very introspective or self-aware person. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if her husband bails on her one day and leaves her with the baby.

2

u/RaysUnderwater Oct 06 '21

I’m really glad you sent her the email detailing everything you did for her and the personal cost that support was to you. Maybe she will grow and maybe not, but it was something she needed to hear.

2

u/elgrn1 Oct 06 '21

You're absolutely right about people with functioning families not understanding the challenges of other people's realities.

I only had my older brother to rely on growing up and thought we were the best of friends. He didn't support me like you did with your sister but he was the one person I thought loved me and who I could turn to.

We were always close and I thought it was what he wanted as opposed to being convenient. He constantly asked me for favours and I always said yes. I was always there for him, more so than he was for me.

I thought there was mutual love and respect and gratitude and he would reciprocate when I needed him. Only he didn't. It wasn't anywhere as big of a need as yours, but he lied about doing it, then lied about lying, then tried to turn the situation around on me.

I was crushed. And a part of me still is because its unresolved and it brings up horrible memories from my childhood which are resolved but it still isn't nice to be reminded. And also, I don't have the person I have known my whole life in my life anymore.

But I have cut him off. He knows where I am and if he ever wanted to make amends and be a good person and a loving brother he can reach out. But if he instead puts his ego first and disrespects me and wants to be stubborn, then that's on him.

I don't owe him more than I've already given and I know I matter. I know this is best for me. He's an adult who knew there were consequences to his behaviour and he had to live with that. Some boundaries can only be crossed once.

I wish you the absolute best and I'm certain this is right for you. Take care.

2

u/meifahs_musungs Oct 06 '21

You are doing what you need for your mental health. Good for you setting boundaries. Glad your gf listened to and respected you. We can all do bonehead insensitive stuff the trick is do we listen when we have messed up. Sorry your sister failed you in all ways possible. That does not subtract from your huge heart, good character, and determination to do the right thing. I wish you the best.

0

u/relaxative_666 Oct 06 '21

I told her to let this be a lesson to her as it has been a painful lesson to me.

Is it me or does this sound really condescending?

15

u/RagdollSeeker Oct 06 '21

No, just heartbreaking.

“I learnt how people you thought closest to you can leave you in the streets and I am hurt. You now know people dont tolerate this behaviour well at all”

1

u/MundaneRus Oct 05 '21

Love this. Next time reply ‘leave me alone I don’t wanna talk no more.

1

u/Ok_Association_2917 Oct 05 '21

Good for you, be happy for yourself. Theres something weird with your sister reaction and actions but it doesnt concern you.

1

u/PirateArtemis Oct 06 '21

I see why some would not want to cut their sister off but your just as entitled to cut her off as she is to say no. I hope you find peace and it gets easier to ignore the messages after a while (I'm low LC with some family).

1

u/AKA_June_Monroe Oct 06 '21

I'm so sorry you're going through this. You were parentified!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification

Your pain is valid & you don't have to forgive her.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/disturbed/201208/why-you-dont-always-have-forgive?amp

1

u/WikiMobileLinkBot Oct 06 '21

Desktop version of /u/AKA_June_Monroe's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification


[opt out] Beep Boop. Downvote to delete

1

u/WikiSummarizerBot Oct 06 '21

Parentification

Parentification is the process of role reversal whereby a child is obliged to act as parent to their own parent or sibling. In extreme cases, the child is used to fill the void of the alienating parent's emotional life. Two distinct types of parentification have been identified technically: instrumental parentification and emotional parentification. Instrumental parentification involves the child completing physical tasks for the family, such as looking after a sick relative, paying bills, interpreting foreign language, or providing assistance to younger siblings that would normally be provided by a parent.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

1

u/GuantanamoBay9 Oct 06 '21

Do not forgive her. My advice would be to cut her out of your life forever. I only read the title and the answer is mega fucking obvious.

1

u/ThorayaLast Oct 06 '21

I would have done the same. I'm happy you're moving on and able to carry on.

-5

u/RedditTemp06 Oct 06 '21

Make sure you have some more emergency money (3ish months worth) in your savings, enough to pay for rent and food. You never know what'll happen in the future

-28

u/Coronaryy Oct 05 '21

You definitely need therapy, pretty badly by the sounds of it.

Good luck OP.

-31

u/CursedCorundum Oct 06 '21

Wow. You need therapy. I don't say that lightly because I don't believe in it.

Point is, you just started cutting people out of your life who didn't agree with you. The ones who wanted to tell you what to do, I understand setting boundaries. Sure you can do that. In the end though you sound incredibly bitter.

Your sister is married. When you chose to help her and sacrifice and be her caretaker, you weren't married. She couldn't let you stay with her so your decision is to blow her out of your life. If this were a common theme of selfish, that I get. But so far it's only been one incident, that she apologized for.

You have no idea what she was going through and quite frankly you don't seem to understand that it's not just her house. What if they were having marital problems? Fighting? Or her husband has a weird issue for whatever reason.

Do I think it's shitty. Yup. All around. I'm sure your sister feels guilty and gutted but she did what most good spouses do, she backed her husband. Two people had to make that decision.

But I don't know you so I don't really care beyond typing this.

Your pride and anger will fester until you gain some perspective.

17

u/Mountain_Calla_Lily Oct 06 '21

What does being married have to do with it?? She could have help him in other ways but she didnt. I think you sir need some therapy. I dont say that lightly either.

-15

u/NotYourTypicalChad78 Oct 06 '21

Sounds more like the sister's husband is the a-hole in this situation more than anyone because it was his decision to veto you staying with them for a while. He's probably the primary breadwinner/paying all the bills and used that to bolster his decision for the "NO". Your sister was never taught to be strong. Your parents were terrible according to your original post. You were her protector and provider most of her life, so she isn't in any position to play heroine because she only knows how to be submissive and be a victim. How do you know she didn't go rounds with her husband on your behalf? News flash, not all women have control of their men with a foot stomp on the ground.

I think you really, really need some professional counseling because your emotional trauma is way above reddit's paygrade. Your emotional state is probably not good to be around the sister's a-hole husband either right now. Glad it didn't take you long to get back on your feet to some degree, since it only took you a few weeks to get that ironed out. You've already made your decision to cut off/punish your sister INDEFINITELY or possibly permanently, but I think that may be going a bit too far...but you do what it best for you right now. Last thing that baby needs is to be around any kind of toxicity or resentment similar to what you and your sister grew up with. Understand that you'll never get back the time you miss watching your nephews or nieces grow up while you exile your sister from your life. I hope for the best for all of you and don't tolerate anyone violating your boundaries after they've been set. You know you best.

9

u/manimopo Oct 06 '21

Understand that you'll never get back the time you miss watching your nephews or nieces grow up while you exile your sister from your life

Who cares? He will have time and energy to make new relationship with other people who will actually have his back for once. Even better.

-46

u/eskimokiss88 Oct 05 '21

Hello, just reading this and your original post now.

I wanted to point out that since you (very graciously) parentified yourself, you should not be surprised when she reacts badly when you asked for help.

Many kids do not appreciate their parents or understand what they've sacrificed. It is super common for kids even as young adults to be bratty and self centered. Most grow up and behave better but what you experienced as a 'parent' is so common.

Please just keep that in mind, it sounds like she has truly understood how wrong she was. I'm very sorry this happened to you.

15

u/Mountain_Calla_Lily Oct 06 '21

I think if most children know their parent will become homeless theyd let them sleep on their couch for a few weeks.

-18

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21 edited Dec 23 '21

[deleted]

12

u/nuttynutdude Oct 06 '21

He gave everything for her and she showed she isn’t willing to do even a fraction of that. It has less to do with abandonment as much as the realization the person he cares about most in the world doesn’t care about him enough to let him crash on her couch for a little bit so he doesn’t become homeless. She didn’t care enough to do the bear minimum for him

-11

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '21 edited Dec 23 '21

[deleted]

-6

u/yohanschmienky Oct 06 '21 Heartwarming

I think your comment is so on point. I feel so sad for both parties. This was such an opportunity to deepen their relationship. I believe if he had communicated early on what such a decision meant, explained the consequences and then moved forward after being open and vulnerable then they would be closer than ever. Instead a brother replicates his own experience and instead of communicating, was triggered by his past trauma, completely understandable and valid, and replicated his past, abandoning. I certainly don’t want to be too hard on OP, but he did to his sister what everyone else did to him, and i can’t find myself able to support that. I actually think the fault wasn’t saying no or feeling rejected but not being open and honest about them. Those feelings and the following choices only created pain and loneliness. I don’t think the brother cut out a user, but isolated himself from his sister. I don’t think his sister would make the same choice knowing what she knows now not cause she has consequences but because she knows what they are now, because she was never informed of them. I can’t imagine giving up so much for someone and leaving them crying in the pain of rejection, the same pain the brother is feeling. Subjugating her to what he feels isn’t justified, it’s cruel and unneeded. All was probably avoidable and now both lives are emptier for it. And all these people are championing him for it. At the end of the day an opportunity to grow closer to have an adult relationship with his sister, outside of the parentification was lost and a bitter cycle of rejection continues, forever changing their lives. I hate a world that created this situation. I feel so sad and emotional about the opportunity these two young people lost and now there is so much pain and rejection it may never come around again. U/Artishickers get into therapy so the next time you feel rejected you deal with it instead of running. At the same time you are a product of your experiences, and i can’t find myself to disagree with your choices in all of this, it just all seems so sad…. I wish you the best.

9

u/Devourer_of_felines Oct 06 '21

I believe if he had communicated early on what such a decision meant, explained the consequences and then moved forward after being open and vulnerable then they would be closer than ever

You're out of your mind if you expect anyone to believe the sister didn't understand the consequences of her inaction.

-2

u/yohanschmienky Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

A 24-25 year old newly wed, caught between her husband and brother, a brother who no matter what happened, through thick and thin, had never betrayed her, would not have known that by not letting him live with her would result in him completely cutting contact for the rest of their lives. That’s insane. She probably thought “my brother will always be there for me.” Which isn’t fair because he has given so much to her, but also my point. They had a moment to move past the brother as a parent relationship to an equal friendship/natural brother sister relationship. The only way for that to have happened though was through communication. She didn’t know. He had always been there for her, and then he just wasn’t. She knows now and is begging screaming for her only family left not to abandon her, the same way the OP was when he needed help. I don’t blame the OP for his choices, just that his choices got the opposite of what he wanted. He wanted his sister to give to him the way he gave to her, and instead now they have nothing, and i think the possibility they could have had everything existed/exist.

-29

u/thatattyguy Oct 06 '21

With respect, you're fucking up w this martyr nonsense bc of the insecurities you acquired during a neglectful childhood. You are destroying what sounds like one of the closest relationships in your life because you cannot process rejection in a healthy way. I recognize the behavior bc I emerged from my own damaged childhood home with a similar mentality. Like, I fucking even recognize your mindset. You are a person who struggles to let people do things for him, but you are a person who will go the extra mile for others. You almost certainly did such a good job helping her grow up normal that she did not realize how much you sacrificed for her, and as a consequence, she failed to recognize the significance of you reaching out. You must have been absolutely desperate to ask a second time, which only compounded your sense of shame and alienation from the world. I have no doubt you resolved to never do a fucking thing for her the rest of her life.

You need to reach the point where you can process rejection FROM THE PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT without it being grounds for effectively killing the relationship.

You feel hurt and resentful and unappreciated. I get that. The solution is to share your resentment -- the way you have already begun to -- and engage in a healing of sorta by working through this and telling your sister the how and why you feel the way you do until it starts to hurt less. That is the proper thing to do here. That is how healthy people u burden themselves of festering resentment. Sometimes you need to repeat yourself ten separate times before you start to feel any better. But you need to keep.at it u til you start to feel better.

She fucked up man, but she is sorry and now understands much better. You can build something better, a relationship more of equals, rather than you as protector and the person who must sacrifice, and with her as the person who must be protected. You can do it man. But this approach is punitive. It diminishes your life, and eliminates someone you loved who made your life better. She will not figure put the perfect grand gesture that will open the crack, but she desperately wants to fix this and have you in her life.

Stop hurting yourself and her. Please. Bc that is what you are doing. This accomplishes nothing. And if you work to forgive, you will emerge with an even better relationship than what you had pre-Covid. Recognize what you are doing. This is the easy way out. You risk no further emotional damage when you withdraw completely, but your life is stripped of its vibrancy when the people you live are eliminated. You can do it.

11

u/manimopo Oct 06 '21

Relationships go both way and require effort and giving from both people.

When one side take take take take and the other give give give give, that's called a parasitic relationship.

-27

u/Beneficial-Jump-3877 Late 30s Female Oct 06 '21

OP, you are only 3 years older than your sister. I'm sorry, but having a sibling only a few years younger means that you really likely weren't capable of taking care of her in the way that you seem to think you took care of her. You are practically the same age. Like some others on the thread, I highly recommend therapy. Growing up in a traumatic household, like you said you did, most likely means you have internalized some really unhealthy relationship dynamics. I recommend checking out some codependency information.

4

u/Mountain_Calla_Lily Oct 06 '21

More like his sister was dependent on him. No codependency here suspected.

-7

u/flyingcactus2047 Oct 06 '21

Did you ever find out any more information on “my husband told me no?” Has she said anything else on the nature of their relationship? It just seems odd. Is it possible that he’s controlling in any way? I know you made your decision but it may be worth it to hear your sister all the way out once.

-9

u/33saywhat33 Oct 06 '21

To clarify, I completely understand why you choose not to see her. You were terrified on the streets! And abandoned.

I will say when you want your pain to get smaller, forgive her. Again and again. This does not mean you ever have to talk to her! It means your own healing won't progress until you forgive her. When the pain flairs up again, forgive her again.

Soon it will have been several days and you never even thought about it.

Science has proven this to be true.

-72

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

22

u/Prince_Horace Oct 06 '21

Grow up kiddo.

14

u/scragglyman Oct 06 '21

This type of judgement post is banned on this subreddit.

26

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '21

OP doesn't owes his sister a relationship she need to stop harassing o p

8

u/Devourer_of_felines Oct 06 '21

I rather be homeless

here's hoping :)

19

u/dystopianpirate Oct 05 '21

May your wishes come true multiplied 10x

-3

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-3

u/Maleficent-Joke-2665 Oct 06 '21

Man she screwed so much.. you're smart and strong as it seems and may this be your lesson in better life from now on. Based on given information she definitely should have treated you differently, that's just straight facts. That being said, she owes you literally nothing if she haven't asked you for any of what you gave her. You can('t) really blame her as we all are just people. Messy beings with many mistakes in various ways. She just did her best at the moment, unfortunately it was like that. From my point of view (and I can totally be a sucker, you'll have to give it weight) best option IS to cut her off until you'll feel contrary. Be cautious tho, most of the times we are walking in circles and what we do once we very likely will do again. And so she may. Anyway, you've been to tough shit and it made you stronger, focuse on that feeling, repeat it and make it your identity. Year later look into a mirror and enjoy (as you already do during the path).. :)