r/technology Oct 07 '22 Silver 1 Wholesome 1

Meta’s flagship metaverse app is too buggy and employees are barely using it, says exec in charge Business

https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/6/23391895/meta-facebook-horizon-worlds-vr-social-network-too-buggy-leaked-memo
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u/lego_mannequin Oct 07 '22

That fucking picture in the article gets me every time.

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u/LordPoopyfist Oct 07 '22

The lifeless eyes with a thousand yard stare and the emotionless little smile.

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u/Daniiiiii Oct 07 '22 Bravo Grande!

And then there's the avatar itself...

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u/--Pariah Oct 07 '22

And for some reason it still looks more human that Zuckerberg. It's wild.

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u/gnapster Oct 07 '22

They really nailed his personality and appearance. It’s uncanny.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/ledfrisby Oct 07 '22 Gold Helpful

In a follow-up memo dated September 30th, Shah said that employees still weren’t using Horizon enough, writing that a plan was being made to “hold managers accountable” for having their teams use Horizon at least once a week. “Everyone in this organization should make it their mission to fall in love with Horizon Worlds. You can’t do that without using it. Get in there. Organize times to do it with your colleagues or friends, in both internal builds but also the public build so you can interact with our community.”

"Management says we have to fall in love with Shitty VR Chat. It's based on hours in-game, so I think we can let it run on the workstation, maybe tape the joystick down to register activity, and then do something more productive on the laptops, like online shopping."

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u/GetFisty Oct 07 '22

do you know how shitty it must be when they can't even force their workers to get paid while fucking around in a vr world?

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22 Gold

These are probably mostly software developers who have more work than time. Management at most companies wants you to do all sorts of extra shit without allocating more time for it. I'm sure if they said "we're going to push all your deadlines by 1/7 so you have 1 day a week to fuck around in VR", people would do it.

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u/dolphin_spit Oct 07 '22

at my old job our managers told us at every team meeting “why hasn’t anyone done this training?”. then we’d tell them that we don’t have time because we’re taking calls constantly and answering urgent tickets.

they said it was a good point, and they’d set aside time for us. then they didn’t, ever. then they’d ask the same question at the next meeting and remind us we need to do training (like hours worth of training)

i was training new hires as they came along and they all started doing these trainings after hours on their own time. i told them to never do that, for any company. if they want the training to be completed they can set aside time for it.

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u/ProtectionDecent Oct 07 '22

We had a very similar problem, too much work, no time to actually go through roughly 12 hours of training, want to guess what was the giga brain decision the brass made?

"Well, we can't have them do that training during their shift, I know! We'll force them to do it in their free time and threaten them first so they have to show up. Brilliant!" Is what I imagine went on up there.

End result was they forced everyone to go to work on saturday or sunday, if you didn't show for saturday a warning and pay cut, if you didn't show on sunday a-bye-bye now. I wish I was joking.

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u/dolphin_spit Oct 07 '22

i believe you, it’s mental. this is what our director was basically saying without saying. not a fucking chance i’m doing a ton of training you want us to take without providing time for it.

they’ve lost a lot of people over this, and they were losses that really hurt them. lots of knowledge and expertise leaving the company.

good managers would never do this

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/driverofracecars Oct 07 '22

DOL has requested your location.

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u/rrogido Oct 07 '22

It's so easy to incentivize this. If the training modules take eight hours to complete then when they are completed employees receive an eight hour bonus (or equivalent for salary) on their next pay period. However corporate hacks are gonna hack and won't clear the budget for something so simple.

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u/GarbanzoBenne Oct 07 '22

I’m sure if they said “we’re going to push all your deadlines by 1/7 so you have 1 day a week to fuck around in VR”, people would do it.

Nice try megacorp. That should be 1/5.

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u/chairmanskitty Oct 07 '22

Nice try, megacorp. That should be 1/4.

(Suppose a task takes 20 work days - that's 4 weeks. If every monday is mandatory VR faff about day, that leaves 4 days of productive labor per week, so it takes 5 weeks to get 20 work days: an increase of 1/4 of the original alotted time).

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u/VulcanMind1 Oct 07 '22

Yup. Year end review is not going to let playing on VR as an excuse for missing your deadline.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

Daily checkins even. No one gives a fuck. This is one of the many reasons I absolutely loathe forced "merriment" at work. Motherfucker I don't want another piece of birthday cake, I wanna get my shit done and hang out with people I don't work with thanks. This isn't summer camp

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u/ProtectionDecent Oct 07 '22

I love the phrasing all the have to/need to. It literally sounds like they are trying to indoctrinate people into a cult. Absolutely ridiculous.

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u/jaspersgroove Oct 07 '22

Executive buy-in only takes you so far.

If you want any project to succeed, whether it’s an app, service, or physical product, you’ve got to get the buy-in of the boots on the ground people who are actually making it happen.

They don’t need to use said product, they just need to actually understand the appeal of it, or at the very least like the paychecks enough to put honest effort in.

This reeks of a C suite pet project that nobody working on it is actually enthusiastic about.

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u/Infinite-Eggs Oct 07 '22

It's funny you say all that because I guarantee that employees had a lot of fun ideas for this and were probably shot down at every turn. At least one person must've suggested adding features from existing successful products, but the problem is that a lot of those features wouldn't be safe for advertisers.

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u/howlinghobo Oct 07 '22

Let's be real. VR worlds would probably be commercial if they're used for porn. I think companies might just be checking for other use cases first.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

This reeks of a C suite pet project that nobody working on it is actually enthusiastic about.

I think the people who are most "excited" for "the metaverse" are the investor/billionaire class. They want to buy up reality and sell us the imaginary shit that they will be the gatekeepers of.

Or maybe I should say "rent", because you cannot truly own anything on someone else's platform.

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u/zuptar Oct 07 '22

Bring forced to use the thing you're trying to sell might make the employees want to make it a better product.

That said, they would probably be better off starting over from scratch with something they all want to use.

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u/andrealessi Oct 07 '22

It highlights the fact that no one actually knows what problem the Metaverse is meant to solve. Products can be improved if you know what they're meant to do, and if what they're meant to do is something that users actually want. If Meta staff can't tell what a working, successful Metaverse is meant to look like, how do they improve it?

Of course, if the product is meant to simply make it easier to sell stuff to people whether they want to buy stuff or not, then there's no way for staff using it at work to help with that, because they're not going to be buying anything.

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u/RamenJunkie Oct 07 '22 Gold

Second Life already figured out and solved the problem that this "solves". Its why its existed and been active for almost 20 years now. To some extent its why VR Chat is basically the only thing that has come along and actually been successful as replicating SL.

People can be "not themselves".

No one wants to go into a Virtual World and be legless cartoon versions of themvelves and do work. They want to be anime girls and dog men and sexy ladies or muscle dudes. They also want to make sexy chat while their anime girls and wolf furries "yiff". Also a lot of creative types just want to make crazy 3D art.

Facebook will never provide any of this because its not a goot environment for advertisers.

Its also an extremely niche space. People who want a customizable sandbox video game, and are sophisticated enough at using PCs to make it work. "Regular people" want face to face interaction, "regular gamers" just want a game.

Total side note, Second Life's April Fools Joke was that they were removing legs from avatars to modernize the platform.

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u/andrealessi Oct 07 '22

I mean, you nailed it: people play Second Life because it's fun. I don't think I've seen anyone who wasn't paid to say that the Metaverse is fun. (I Googled "is the Metaverse fun?" and it asked if I meant to type "fund".)

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u/mind_on_crypto Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Second Life is fun, it’s an escape, it’s a creative outlet, and you can literally be anything you want there. And it manages to offer all that (and more) on a good old-fashioned computer monitor. I’ve been using SL for 16 years, and I have yet to see anything else in the VR space as interesting or as addictive.

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u/Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 Oct 07 '22

i think the bit they aren't getting is that the main thing people would want to do in a VR world is have kinky sex. look at the internet, it's mostly porn. a successful metaverse would be that but more diverse, much like second life was if we're being honest

no one cares that their mii self can visit the eiffel tower. we can visit the eiffel tower in real life.

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u/AmaResNovae Oct 07 '22

Or see thousands of good quality pictures of the eiffel tower for free if they can't afford going to Paris. A shitty cartoonish copy in VR? That's just a shitty ersatz made to sell ad space.

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u/Flutters1013 Oct 07 '22

Or street view the eiffel tower, congrats you are now standing in front of it.

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u/01111000marksthespot Oct 07 '22

Until you can fuck in it or kill in it there's simply no point. If you could do both it would be a killer app.

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u/JMEEKER86 Oct 07 '22

It really just blows my mind that they have already sunk billions into this and it's literally just a worse version of VR Chat. How the hell does Zuck think that this thing is going to bring in tens of billions of dollars?

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u/THALANDMAN Oct 07 '22

I don’t know what he’s thinking but it’s hilarious watching him tank a billion dollar company with such a hamfisted shitty idea and the entire apparatus just goes along with it like he’s some boy king. I love VR and was an early adopter of the Vive. Nobody is going to want to work a full day with a screen strapped to their face in a cartoon avatar world.

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u/rswing81 Oct 07 '22

I worked in emerging tech using HoloLens devices pretty regularly for long durations. More than an hour or two in one and you’ll feel pretty sick, disoriented, and drained.

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u/a93H3sn4tJgK Oct 07 '22

Story checks out. That’s how I feel after 10 minutes on Facebook.

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u/CollyPocket Oct 07 '22

He saw ready player 1

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u/ComputerSong Oct 07 '22

It’s just a video game, regardless of what they call it.

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u/Pelteux Oct 07 '22

A pretty shitty video game too.

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u/DeceiverOfNations Oct 07 '22

It seems to me that the idea they are going for is kind of like a GTA RPG server but it's actually Second Life but has to remind people of Nintendo a little but also have like quasi crypto and Meta would be the godly admins that can do whatever. Those strung together thoughts blasted on a power point seems to be the vibe I'm getting.

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u/GershBinglander Oct 07 '22

Behold, 'the Uber of Second Lifes' we're going to disrupt the VR space with the latest in engagement generation AI.

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u/make_love_to_potato Oct 07 '22

Not enough block chain synergy.

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u/yammys Oct 07 '22

If they want user retention they should probably look to MMOs for inspiration.

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u/finalremix Oct 07 '22

Is it? I didn't think it had "gameplay" and was more like that knuckles-meme visual chatroom, but worse.

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u/John_T_Conover Oct 07 '22

Yeah I don't buy that either. Sure, that gets tacked on more as an afterthought, but when Zuck talks about it that's not where the focus is. Looking back at the previous commenters question:

It highlights the fact that no one actually knows what problem the Metaverse is meant to solve.

It's not meant to solve any of our problems, it's meant to solve his. And people like him. His fascination was first and foremost as a workspace. One where, even if someone is working from home, remotely, in an office across the planet, anywhere...they are plugged into a world where he can monitor everything they do and extract endless amounts of data from every single thing they do. It's just a natural next step of how they already have structured Facebook.

Now he's having to reverse engineer the PR campaign to appeal to the masses...because it's useless without them voluntarily signing up for this bullshit.

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u/DogWallop Oct 07 '22

I think this is the answer to the problem Zuck has of being limited in the real world from being able to collect unlimited data from unlimited numbers of people. If he creates his own real world, so to speak, he can make all the rules.

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u/Omegamanthethird Oct 07 '22

There was a thing called Playstation Home that was kind of novel. But by the end of the PS3's lifespan the novelty wore off so they abandoned it. This was also back when online itself was transitioning from novelty to useful.

They're trying to replicate that "success" apparently.

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u/finalremix Oct 07 '22

I fuckin' loved PSHome for about 5 minutes before I realized there was nothing to "do" but "browse" virtual storefronts and stand in front of a looping SONY TV screen (there was no event on at the time) on my SONY TV.

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u/krinkov Oct 07 '22

Biggest hurdle is committing to just using the VR headset. And this is coming from someone that has a Quest 2 for games. Thing about FB on your phone is its in your pocket, you can pull it out for a minute while your standing in line, walking somewhere, in a car ride, you can do something else at the same time. Its completely accessible. You cant stick a VR headset in your pocket, pull it out for a min while your at your desk, in line, walking somewhere. It takes 100% of your attention and a set time and place to engage with it. Thats just not the relationship people have had with FB or any other social media for the last 10+ years. Even if the VR headsets were free, meta would still be a hard sell.

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u/Electramech Oct 07 '22

Totally agree. Zuchy thinks he has created Ready Player One's OASIS but he failed quite short of his Mark.

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u/ExultantSandwich Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I think VR is utterly useless for work, it’s value is all in entertainment. Watching movies, and playing video games.

They always brag about how you can have as many virtual monitors as you want, but how the hell am I supposed to orient my fingers on the keyboard? I can type while looking at the monitor, but I still glance down to center my hands fairly often.

Also VR screens still aren’t nearly high resolution enough for real work. The effective resolution of each virtual monitor is like 800 x 600 if you’ve got multiple in your viewport. That makes it impossible to use regular desktop apps as you would on a real monitor / dual monitor setup. Analog sticks and gyro controls are terrible for precise tasks where a mouse excels, but a mouse is not a suitable input device for VR.

Unless the employees are playing Beat Saber, they shouldn’t want to wear those headsets.

And Mixed Reality isn’t the solution. I don’t care how many cameras they add to the headset. It’s not good enough to make you want to use pass through mode.

Real work could be done with functional AR. That’s years away from working properly, but HoloLens and similar devices are used in industrial settings. A true unobtrusive, high fidelity pair of AR glasses will undoubtedly change the world. Until then, the Metaverse is fiction.

Meta is only pivoting this hard because they already owned Oculus, and they want a walled garden of their own for 30% of digital purchases, and an advertising platform that Apple can’t cut off at the knees with iOS updates. They should focus on video games, but they don’t see a profit in it, evidently. I think that’s a mistake.

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u/APeacefulWarrior Oct 07 '22 Helpful

Another complaint I've seen which doesn't often get brought up in these threads: VR goggles ruin your hair and/or makeup. And this is a big deal for anyone who's in a customer-facing role and is expected to look their best. No one is going to want to hop into a VR chat for a "five minute meeting" if it means spending half an hour in the bathroom making themselves presentable again.

Fundamentally, this sort of thing just isn't going to work for business, until we have AR goggles which have the same form factor as regular glasses, or something similarly low-impact.

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u/ExultantSandwich Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 08 '22

VR goggles also cut you off and force you to do one thing. You can’t check your phone, or look in the mirror, doodle on a notepad, go to the bathroom, or easily refer to a book / folder with a VR headset. I just don’t see a universe where it’s more productive than existing workflows to stick an Oculus Quest to your face.

Even if pass through mode is near flawless, I believe people will prefer to remove their headsets for more fidelity / control for decades to come

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u/canalswimmer Oct 07 '22

That's like exactly the point. Zucc wants to own your eyes, not only know but determine what your look at next.

Next version of his goggles will keep your eyes open amd poof we're in some Black Mirror episode.

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u/DECtape Oct 07 '22 Silver

The craziest thing about it to me is I would have thought zucc would have been able to spot what a trap this virtual world idea is. It's an idea that's had money DUMPED into it about ever 5 years or so since the early 80s. Habitat, Active Worlds, Second Life, none of them ever catch on because nobody actually wants to work in what amounts to a gmod dark RP office when you can do a Teams call in your headphones while you browse the internet on your phone or laptop.

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u/kodaobscura Oct 07 '22

Take it one step further, is there even any media that expounds how awesome society would get if we could jack into a virtual reality life? From Neuromancer to Demolition Man every time it either is just a barrier that gets overcome or a pale imitation that is intentionally limited and sterilized.

It's like watching the Terminator and walking away thinking sentient killer robots would be a good thing to make.

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u/Hazzat Oct 07 '22

is there even any media that expounds how awesome society would get if we could jack into a virtual reality life?

Black Mirror's San Junipero makes the case it could improve life for the elderly. That's all I can think of.

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u/JayCeeJaye Oct 07 '22

People with disabilities too.

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u/the_jak Oct 07 '22

The most compelling version of the Metaverse I’ve ever read or watched was in Snow Crash. And that is pretty much a cooler version of Second Life.

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u/ElvenCouncil Oct 07 '22

It's also a brief escape from a dystopia for its users. Just like zucc incisions his metaverse to be in 20 years

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u/kanst Oct 07 '22

It highlights the fact that no one actually knows what problem the Metaverse is meant to solve

Because the only goal is to create a new form of market to sell shit. But if they just admit that no one will join their weird shitty game

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u/Billiruben Oct 07 '22

The problem is Zucc got lucky creating one thing, and now thinks he's a genius inventor.

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u/ProtectionDecent Oct 07 '22

Or it will massively backfire and people will hate it even harder. It's similar if you get one specific ad played to you excessively, at one point it stops making you idly dismiss it/maybe consider buying it and instead it will make you despise the ad and the thing it's trying to sell you, actively driving you away.

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u/FruitbatNT Oct 07 '22

“This is my Lamborghini, but check out all these books I’ve read. Buy my pyramid scheme or something.”

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u/maxcorrice Oct 07 '22

It was actually a funnel scheme and he lost all his money

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u/DaGreatPenguini Oct 07 '22

One Eight Seven Seven Cars For Kids…

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u/Koioua Oct 07 '22

Just use Second Life if you're that into virtual worlds.

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u/Grendel0075 Oct 07 '22

I've played whole DnD campaigns in secondlife, it was great. on the otherhand, I've seen Optimus Prime getting 'frisky' with a furry, wich was less great.

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u/jovietjoe Oct 07 '22

Ahhh, i remember some company trying to have a presser in second life and a storm of flying dicks descended on them. it was pretty great. Meta will never be a thing until we can summon great gusts of dong on command

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u/sploittastic Oct 07 '22

It's basically like telling your employees to play a video game during work hours but they're not interested. It must really suck.

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u/kciuq1 Oct 07 '22

"I want to be able to play video games and get paid for it"

Monkeys paw curls

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u/uiucengineer Oct 07 '22

If I refused to interact at all with the product I'm working on, that would be pretty weird and not productive.

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u/NigerianRoy Oct 07 '22

Yeah but there has to be something to engage for. It can be the cause but it sure sounds more like a symptom. Of it being useless, badly conceived, and badly executed.

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u/Legitimate_Plum9 Oct 07 '22

The beatings will continue until falling in love has been achieved

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u/nombre1 Oct 07 '22

"Why is no one having fun? I specifically requested it!"

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u/HappierShibe Oct 07 '22

so I think we can let it run on the workstation, maybe tape the joystick down to register activity, and then do something more productive on the laptops, like online shopping."

Yeah with eye tracking cameras and facial interface sensors built in, this is gonna be waaaaaay harder.

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u/SergeyLuka Oct 07 '22

insert googly eyes

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u/FlemPlays Oct 07 '22

”Identity confirmed. Welcome Mr. Zuckerberg.”

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u/spintronic Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Eating your own dog food is one thing, having management shove your face in the bowl is another.

Edit: I just remembered a former coworker who had previous worked at Linden Labs. They had to do all their meetings in Second Life. 20 years later and still the same shit.

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u/sarhoshamiral Oct 07 '22

It is not so unexpected that management would encourage and even mandate dogfooding. However saying you have to fall in love with it is a whole another level.

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u/kanst Oct 07 '22

On the other hand, if you're entire dev team won't use a product shouldn't that trigger some real considerations in the c suite?

It's like they don't accept "this project is a failure" as one of the possible answers

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u/sarhoshamiral Oct 07 '22

Depends on the product really, if it is not targeting similar people then it is understandable.

Not sure where Metaverse stands in this regard. I assume people like Facebook engineers would be part of the target group. Unfortunately I have seen too many examples of management asking teams to dogfood but then not listen the feedback :/

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u/sickbeatzdb Oct 07 '22

I’m the dog who gets beat — Shove my nose in shit

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u/jelly-sandwich Oct 07 '22

I worked at Linden Lab and it was awesome having the meetings in Second Life. Your coworker probably fucking sucked if they thought that was a chore. You got to hop around and shoot things at your coworkers and every once in a while someone would show up with a hilarious set of animated genitals they bought on the marketplace and it’s genuinely the only time I can remember having interesting stories to tell about work meetings.

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u/Djaesthetic Oct 07 '22

I have (3) friends that all work at Linden and every one of them has talked up the unique nature of it all. Sure, it comes with some BS like any other job - but if the worst you’ve got to complain about is meetings in Second Life? Frankly your job sounds pretty damn sweet. Heh

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u/Crap4Brainz Oct 07 '22

SL is a desktop app with a resizable window. Even if you do have to use it as your main text/voice chat for work purposes, it does that job well enough.

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u/McG0788 Oct 07 '22

Who cares. Let this shit die already

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u/Paperdiego Oct 07 '22

The zuck literally changed the name of his company exemplify how far deep they were going with this concept. It was so fucking stupid, but it's gonna be hard to abandon the idea because what does that mean for the company called meta lmao.

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u/cmon_now Oct 07 '22

Yeah, there is absolutely no way Zuck will let this die. He will stick with it to the bitter end. Once the dust settles and the platform is universally panned, he will claim victory and success. That's how the mega egomaniacs operate. Can't admit when they make an error in judgement. Claim victory no matter what.

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u/GetFisty Oct 07 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

we're having fun watching it die.

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u/JennaFrost Oct 07 '22

It is kinda fun watching to see how they somehow figure out how to screw up even further each time XD

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u/GetFisty Oct 07 '22

it's like a car crash, every move they make is just worse and worse

i just wonder what happens to all that money banks and companies have invested into it? will it just disappear? can i short the metaverse?

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u/korben2600 Oct 07 '22

So here's the thing though, Meta prints a fuckton of money from its advertising. Like an envious amount of profit. From the last 4 quarters, on nearly $120 billion in revenues, their net income was $33.7 billion. In pure profit. They make money hand over fist from people's data and targeted adverts so it would take a lot to topple them, unfortunately.

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u/LoneRonin Oct 07 '22

No, no, let Zuckerberg keep pissing away all his fortune on it. Then let it die.

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u/jayesper Oct 07 '22

We need a few more $10 billion selfies.

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u/ArchyModge Oct 07 '22 Take My Energy

You won’t say that to my meta-face.

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u/romanholder1 Oct 07 '22

My meta-fist begs to differ.

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u/fubes2000 Oct 07 '22

I call shit like this a "passionless project".

Some rich a-hole thinks of some nebulous thing that is "the next big thing" and throws a pile of money and a vague description at a bunch of engineers fronted by some middle managers. Cue a bunch of meetings like "I don't know what I want, but it's better than this" and it doesn't really matter if someone on the team actually was excited because the project committee can't conceptualize how their ideas would contribute to shareholder interests.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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u/purplebrown_updown Oct 07 '22

This is spot on. The reality is his employees don’t give a shit about it. At least not as much as Zuck wants. They pay ridiculous salaries because that’s the only way people come to work for them. Whereas google and apple have products that people use and love.

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u/cjcs Oct 07 '22

Totally agree. Even as someone who works in tech there is a very specific kind of executive that drinks the company kool-aid way too hard and ends up completely out of touch with what normal people actually want. Seems like those are the types managing Facebook currently.

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u/pleachchapel Oct 07 '22

Asking users to spend time in a virtual world where there is nothing exciting to DO. Facebook has never made anything fun. The schadenfreude I get from watching the Lizard & his lair collapse is more entertaining than anything in the metaverse.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/Maleficent_Long553 Oct 07 '22

What is the metaverse for?

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u/USFederalGovt Oct 07 '22

Ads.

Let’s be honest, Meta-Verse is just going to be another platform for advertising.

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u/r0b0d0c Oct 07 '22

Zuckerberg is convinced people will be spending their real paychecks on virtual real estate and designer clothing for their Metaverse avatars.

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u/Dazzler_wbacc Oct 07 '22

I think some people would buy virtual real estate and clothing for avatars. Gabe Newell has already made a fortune selling the latter, and some server owners have probably made an easy buck selling the former in their Gmod or modded GTA servers.

What GabeN and 12 year old DarkRP admins understand that Zuckerberg does not is that these virtual goods are supplementary and not the primary reason people use the platform.

Would people buy hats if TF2 wasn’t fun? What about CSGO skins? Or if I don’t see a reason to log back onto a modded RP server, why would I buy the VIP mega-mansion? The truth of the matter is, Mark is putting the cart before the horse.

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u/SuperSugarBean Oct 07 '22 Wait What?

I was told it would be great for me, as an accountant, because I could work from my bed, staring at multiple, life-size spreadsheets, while wearing gloves that allow me to type without a keyboard, using my own proprietary method of typing I can make up myself!

Meta - solving problems nobody has since 2021.

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u/TheNightOwl20 Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

How would those gloves work? Sure, I know how to touch type, so I don't have to look down at my keyboard all the time while I'm typing, but when I first sit at my desk, I still have to look down to know where the keyboard physically is before I use it. If the keyboard is on the screen and I have to poke it with my fingers to type, why not just have a keyboard? Seems faster and less likely to have calibration errors. And why would making spreadsheets giant help matters? Just means craning your neck around a lot more than is necessary to read a particular document...

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u/SuperSugarBean Oct 07 '22

He apparently completely overestimated how much accountants love Excel.

We don't want to crawl inside and live in it.

As for the gloves, he mentioned something about typing against my thigh.

I dunno. It's all pretty stupid.

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u/kaibee Oct 07 '22

And why would making spreadsheets giant help matters?

Because current VR headsets don't have high enough screen resolution to simulate a display from 2003, let alone match the fidelity of a modern dual monitor setup of two 27" 2560x1440 monitors. This is honestly the central problem with them being used for 'productivity' at the moment.

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u/Kyouhen Oct 07 '22

Congratulations, you've discovered the biggest obstacle in getting anyone to use VR: It's easier to do things physically. There's very little VR offers, at least as Facebook wants it to be, that isn't easier to do with the tech we already have. Games can get some fun things going, but in the workplace you're better off just sitting at your desk.

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u/Bangays Oct 07 '22

Even vr games are pretty clunky and annoying to navigate

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u/Kytyngurl2 Oct 07 '22

My fav vr experiences have definitely mostly been visual. Meditating in pretty or trippy environments, sitting underwater or at beaches and forests, some fishing. The less head moving and complicated gestures, the more accessible it is on a daily basis.

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u/LupinThe8th Oct 07 '22

Exactly. The spectacle of it, and the immersion make clunky UIs and difficulty of use worth it. I've got Minecraft VR, I'm far worse at it than I am with a keyboard and mouse, but the cool factor of walking around inside it makes it a cool alternative. And even then I don't use it exclusively, I have to be in the mood. It's not always worth the hassle.

So what the hell value does adding this stuff to my work life have? At work I have tasks that actually matter, with actual deadlines and people who will be upset if I don't hit them. I also have co-workers who still can't figure out how to unmute themselves in a Zoom meeting. Wouldn't trust them in VR unless I knew they were on the ground floor and with no sharp objects in the room.

What actual benefit is there to making work less convenient and more complicated? I'm not there to enjoy myself, I want to get my shit done in the most efficient way possible and then leave.

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u/dejagermeister Oct 07 '22

This is like that one episode of Community

“AND JESUS WEPT, for there were no more worlds left to conquer”

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/SuperSugarBean Oct 07 '22

No lies have been told

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u/wildmonkeymind Oct 07 '22

Imagine a cool place you could hang out, kind of like the real world, except absolutely everything you say and do is completely surveilled through a digital corporate panopticon. Bonus: there are exciting new ways to spend money!

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u/SquidKid47 Oct 07 '22

Don't forget all the awesome ways you can be shown targeted advertisements! How fun!

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u/perthling Oct 07 '22

Facebook wants a platform that they own https://www.roadtovr.com/report-zuckerberg-email-facebooks-xr-strategy-goal-unity/

Their fears are legitimate https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/facebook-says-apple-ios-privacy-change-will-cost-10-billion-this-year.html

They have bet their company on the next platform being vr/ar based

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u/Longjumping_Way_4935 Oct 07 '22

You know how happy I would be to see Facebook be born, become a megacorp, and then fucking die in my lifetime?

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u/jabbadarth Oct 07 '22

I mean that is pretty much what has happened to most software companies in one way or another. Get bought, drastically change directions or fade into obscurity.

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u/MyNameIsMud0056 Oct 07 '22

So that Zuckerberg can recreate the dystopian world of Snow Crash? He must have read that book and thought the world it depicted was something people wanted.

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u/paulcnichols Oct 07 '22

No it’s worse, he read Ready Player One and wanted to be the villain. Truish story.

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u/deceptivelyelevated Oct 07 '22

Who knows. I’m too busy being tired from being poverty.

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u/dewayneestes Oct 07 '22

In the Metaverse there is no poverty… because poor people can’t afford the cost of entry.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

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u/DuzziDabs Oct 07 '22

I felt that in my soul.

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u/Mares_Leg Oct 07 '22

For Zuckerberg and the CIA.

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u/brownhotdogwater Oct 07 '22

No one wants to wear a headset for hours for work. That would just plain suck and hurt.

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u/SpectacularStarling Oct 07 '22

Would I wear a headset to work? Sure, if the experience isn't absolutely awful I'd consider it, but if it were developed by Facebook? Not a chance.

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u/saadakhtar Oct 07 '22

Come to office and work while wearing a headset that makes you feel you're somewhere else (maybe your home environment)

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u/GetFisty Oct 07 '22

watching the complete meltdown happening at facebook is literally my highlight of 2022.

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u/lothar74 Oct 07 '22

I’m also glad to see that I’m not the only one who refuses to stop calling them Facebook.

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u/Radixeo Oct 07 '22

I don’t believe that they changed their name solely because they believe in the metaverse as the future. They must have realized that Facebook was a toxic brand and the name change was mainly a way to distance themselves from their past controversies.

They have not atoned for all the terrible things Facebook has done, so it would be immoral to go along with their name change.

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u/PolyamorousPlatypus Oct 07 '22

Nobody calls Google Alphabet either.

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u/jamnewton22 Oct 07 '22

I still have no idea what the Metaverse is nor do I really wanna know tbh

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u/Popeholden Oct 07 '22

what I can't figure out is how they managed to spend BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THIS

how do you spend billions of dollars on anything and have it be this shitty?!

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u/Algernon_Asimov Oct 07 '22

“For many of us, we don’t spend that much time in Horizon and our dogfooding dashboards show this pretty clearly,” he wrote to employees on September 15th. “Why is that? Why don’t we love the product we’ve built so much that we use it all the time?

This is starting to sound like a solution in search of a problem. There's no reason to use the software, so why use it?

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u/itwasyousirnayme Oct 07 '22

Gotta say, i don’t like how buggy it is. You’d think an entity as large as Meta could get this right; but they are failing in a way that invites mockery.

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u/nikunikuniku Oct 07 '22

Maybe they don't believe in it and thus don't give a shit?

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u/beaucephus Oct 07 '22

They have unreasonable expectations set with unreasonable timeliness where every feature is the highest priority. So, under the pressure the totality of what developers can release at any one time is of low quality.

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u/Pairadockcickle Oct 07 '22

This is a person that may have scrummed.

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u/Dc_awyeah Oct 07 '22

The great thing about Agile is that we sacrifice long term milestones and planning for lightweight approach, low overhead, and consistent delivery! Right? No more planning and milestones and constantly rescoping and adjusting expectations! Right? Wait, what do you mean “no no, we still do all the old stuff, but with four hours a week of new meetings?” Oh I see, they aren’t meetings, they’re “ceremonies” so it doesn’t feel like work even though now my day is filled with this bullshit and I have to work at night instead? Awesome.

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u/Pairadockcickle Oct 07 '22

You too, have scrummed I see. And maybe too many times….

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u/Outlulz Oct 07 '22

Isn’t agilefall fun? My organization is agile….in that roadmap planning is done in six month chunks nine months in advance and making any change in the “plan of record” for any reason requires a write up and sign off from no less than four managers. And we are only allowed to release six times a year. But hey we do daily stand-ups and groomings and sprint plannings! Agile!

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u/Dc_awyeah Oct 07 '22

Unnnngh delivering so HARD

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HappierShibe Oct 07 '22

One of the best agile environments I ever worked in was just an old fashioned and well run Waterfall model, but they renamed all of the meetings and documents and everything with agile buzzwords without adopting any of the practices.
IT WORKED PERFECTLY.

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u/itwasyousirnayme Oct 07 '22

I have to suspect that the Mark Zucks has a problem attracting talent at this point. The net is saturated with web-savvy programmers; but VR is less trodden ground and is less forgiving. But what blows my mind is that even his vaunted meta space has a buggy-ass interface. Also, my oculus quest controllers are buggy af.

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u/sparta981 Oct 07 '22

You know a launch is fucked when you have the old version of the product and you're like 'well I won't call it that'.

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u/Careful-Combination7 Oct 07 '22

People out there are made 3d mods for games for free The talent is out there. Meta just sucks

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u/mars_coltrane Oct 07 '22

Honestly it’s completely laughable at this point. I simply cannot even believe it is what it is. Like, at first I thought “ok. It looks like shit but I’m sure there’s gonna be an a-ha moment soon”. And now I just feel like I’ve completely wasted my time even following this lol. Good god

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u/FlameSkimmerLT Oct 07 '22

Right!? Not even the Devs are using it! A sensible product manager would have delayed launch until they had a product that didn’t suck. I guess he or she was overruled by the Lizard King.

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u/KingDigital Oct 07 '22

I've worked at several large media and tech corps. Everyone has a cluster fuck in the background, it's just the outward appearance of having shit in order.

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u/odelay42 Oct 07 '22

There simply aren't enough decent coders to make all the shit the economy demands.

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u/mcbergstedt Oct 07 '22

Maybe that, and there’s such high turnover at tech companies that there’s no unified vision. Employees just use the company as a resume builder to get more money at the next place.

It’s basically the reason why all of googles side projects die in under a year.

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u/ButlerFish Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

They seem to be trying to get internal users to beta test development builds, so it's to be expected. The real concern is that their internal users don't seem motivated to use the product.

Say Blizard were asking employees to spend a few hours a week beta testing a new game so they could understand what people liked, wanted, encounter and fix bugs. Everyone would be okay with the bugs. If the employees don't like the game, that's very bad - it's not going to sell.

I've used horizon workrooms are bit, and as a remote worker I can see how a way to hang out with my colleagues when we're working closely on the same thing could be useful, or the ability to doodle on a whiteboard together would be great sometimes.

As a product it has a really weird vibe - like everything I hated about being in an office. A lot of stuff you need isn't there - I can't see my colleagues screen so it's less colaborative than screensharing on zoom. Working on a beach sounds cool until you realize the fixed sitting positions are facing away from the beatiful scenery which is eeriily quite and the majority of work "environments" are very soulless office settings with a bad view of the window. It's just not nice.

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u/dolphin_spit Oct 07 '22

what you just described makes me want to die

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u/Waitwhat007007 Oct 07 '22

I think we are on the edge of seeing a very large company implode. 🍿

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u/pilchard_slimmons Oct 07 '22

Unlikely. They can afford to piss this money away and they still have a stable of solid IPs. Much more likely this will limp along for another couple of years before it finally gets shelved and the company just eats the dogfood loss.

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u/Ryanjelly Oct 07 '22

I think the reason they're desperately trying this is because they want to have control of hardware like Apple and Google do. It's their last gamble to continue growth and remain a tech giant with an enormous value instead of declining to second-tier big tech status (or worse).

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u/Turtle_Rain Oct 07 '22

Plus Facebook as a Plattform isn't doing well and TikTok is gaining popularity with a young generation and could threaten Instagram. They need sth new that's a real hit and not just try to catch up with the newer, more popular services.

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u/TreeDollarFiddyCent Oct 07 '22

... so they chose to recreate SecondLife.

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u/Warkitz Oct 07 '22

Zuckerborg really thinks he's a fucking genius.

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u/noeyedeeratall Oct 07 '22

Happens all the time to successful folks. They think they're something special but really they were just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

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u/Redqueenhypo Oct 07 '22

It also seems to be a large corporation thing: they forget people pay them for a product and not just out of concern for the shareholders. Thus they try to push zero-effort products onto customers, then panic when nobody wants it (see also glut of Netflix shovelware tv shows). Thankfully Meta is not Boeing, so their failure will just be completely hilarious rather than lethal.

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u/sadcoffee Oct 07 '22

This. There's a lot of luck involved with going from a nobody to a somebody. But we never talk about that, instead we talk about how smart, hardworking, and deserving they are. Zuck heard this throughout his entire trajectory, up to and including when he decided to start his villian year(s).

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u/EdgelordZeta Oct 07 '22

I'd much rather have "Roy: A Life Well Lived"

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u/whispered_profanity Oct 07 '22

Yeah- here you have to have a social security number AND a Facebook account :/

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u/robot-downey-jnr Oct 07 '22

Has anyone ever wanted to watch a tech product flame out so hard? Burn in the fiery confines of Satan's goat hair jockstrap for eternity, Zuck's Metaverse

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u/JoeDeluxe Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Fuck... How am I supposed to sleep tonight knowing this?

*UPDATE: I was, in fact, able to sleep very soundly last night.

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u/the-finnish-guy Oct 07 '22 I'll Drink to That

I read the headline like 30 seconds ago and already forgot it by the time i got to this comment.

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u/elcriticalTaco Oct 07 '22

Sorry you cannot sleep when there are monsters nearby

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u/apocalypsetown Oct 07 '22

wtf even is the metaverse though

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u/RDPCG Oct 07 '22

SecondLife, update 1.2.

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u/TheStoryOfSome Oct 07 '22

That's just VRChat

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u/The00Taco Oct 07 '22

Shitty VRChat with less sex mods

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u/JeSuisCharlieMartel Oct 07 '22

VRchat with facebook tier moderation, aka can't say anything can't do anything (unless you're some kind of official page for a terrorist organization or embassy from a dictatorship then you're good)

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u/jupfold Oct 07 '22

Wrong! WRONG!

You also have to wear a stupid headset.

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u/lkhsnvslkvgcla Oct 07 '22

List of things that Metaverse is useful for:

 

 

 

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u/Manos_Of_Fate Oct 07 '22

It’s a solution in search of a problem.

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u/Mensketh Oct 07 '22

Meta is telling their employees “We can’t expect our users to love it if we don’t love it, therefore we order you to use it more and fall in love with it.”

Zuckerberg is so lost in a sunk cost fallacy and I’m loving it. Nobody wants your metaverse bud.

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u/Inside_Stable_3182 Oct 07 '22

Billions spent on trying to get people more addicted to living online. Money better spent dealing with real problems.

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u/0xTorpedo Oct 07 '22

The younger generations don't want anything to do with Zuck and Meta. Instagram is an exception though.

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u/5th_Law_of_Roboticks Oct 07 '22

Nah, they're fucking up Instagram pretty badly right now too, trying to turn it into a TikTok clone.

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u/boothbygraffoe Oct 07 '22

This thing will MySpace by 2024

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u/disregard_karma Oct 07 '22

Dude people actually used Myspace

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u/chucchinchilla Oct 07 '22

Except people generally respect MySpace and its founder.

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u/cleeder Oct 07 '22

That’s because we were all friends with him

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u/cf858 Oct 07 '22

“Everyone in this organization should make it their mission to fall in love with Horizon Worlds."

That's not how 'falling in love' works my friend.

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u/cologne_peddler Oct 07 '22

Would really love it if Meta flamed out and never came back

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u/sgjo1 Oct 07 '22

I love watching the downfall of Zuck/Meta

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u/ddrcrono Oct 07 '22

It seemed intuitively silly even at a glimpse. I'm not sure what they were aiming for here.

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